The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[jjohns44]

I like how Dallas showed an edge you don't really see in a lot of those little-guy rookies. After he eliminated Wade and Wade was grabbing at him, he looked like he snapped and showed some intensity that showed he just wasn't going to take anyone's crap and not be relegated to just jobbing out to other wrestlers without getting any offense.

[Comradebot]

Somebody hasn't played the Mass Effect series.

 

And those people suck. Don't get me wrong, I hated the Mass Effect 3 ending... but I still absolutely love the franchise.

 

With that said, Bioware tried to "outsmart" the players and create an ending no one would see coming. **** that, Mass Effect has always had a foot in the door of cheesy Sci-Fi. It should've been like Doctor Who, and Shepherd saves the day while some big, sweeping music plays. It would've been completely predictable, but there's a reason certain tropes and cliches exist, and I'd rather have the super obvious "Well, Shep just sent the Reapers all straight to hell and then went on to bang some space hotties," ending than the star child.

 

In fact, the moment someone said "star child", they should've known to scrap the whole thing.

[Sco xY2Jx]

Fleisch Wrestlemania Challenge:

Not including punches and kicks, I set you all the task of counting how many DIFFERENT moves will be used in the Wrestlemania main event by John Cena and The Rock.

 

The Rock

*Sharpshooter

*Rock Bottom

*People's Elbow

*Spinebuster

 

John Cena

*5 knuckle shuffle

*Attitude Adjustment

*Shoulder Charge

 

Shared

*Bearhug

*Suplex

*Hip toss

*Clothesline

 

So about 11 moves in total, repeated and dragged out over 30 minutes... s'gonna be an epic main event.

[infinitywpi]

The Rock

*Sharpshooter

*Rock Bottom

*People's Elbow

*Spinebuster

 

John Cena

*5 knuckle shuffle

*Attitude Adjustment

*Shoulder Charge

 

Shared

*Bearhug

*Suplex

*Hip toss

*Clothesline

 

So about 11 moves in total, repeated and dragged out over 30 minutes... s'gonna be an epic main event.

 

You forgot 'punch'. And Cena does have a mean dropkick when he decides to bust it out.

 

So, I don't give the writers enough credit to try this, but what if they tried to make this into a "Which era was better" thing? During the match, Rocky starts busting out Stunners, Pedigrees, and a Mandible Claw... Cena uses a Skull-Crushing Finale, Del Rio's armbar, and the Go2Sleep.

 

... okay, maybe that wouldn't be as cool as it sounded before I started typing it...

[Jaysin]

How about a Shield vs Cena, Sheamus, and Ryback Elimination Chamber match?

 

So basically War Games using the Chamber.

[Psycho Sam]

The Rock

*Sharpshooter

*Rock Bottom

*People's Elbow

*Spinebuster

 

John Cena

*5 knuckle shuffle

*Attitude Adjustment

*Shoulder Charge

 

Shared

*Bearhug

*Suplex

*Hip toss

*Clothesline

 

So about 11 moves in total, repeated and dragged out over 30 minutes... s'gonna be an epic main event.

 

Forgot the spin out powerbomb by Cena

[Rone Rivendale]

Forgot the spin out powerbomb by Cena

 

And the Huracanrana. ^_~

[Mattywood]

Why do I have a feeling that one of the people in this thread is this guy?

 

http://www.kayfabenews.com/millions-eagerly-await-review-from-chubby-guy-on-webcam/

 

The real irony here is that half the people moaning would book their shows in the exact same matter in TEW to get those 100 grades.

[jjohns44]

^ hahaha! It's the Onion for wrestling news! I love the comments about 'I don't know whether or not a match was good or not until he tells me' haha

[Comradebot]

I'm actually watching Main Event... guess I have a serious wrestling itch this last month or so.

 

Good match between Ryback and Cesaro... but I love em' both. Yeah, the guy who books monsters and EWA loves the monster and the big Swiss guy, shocker, I know.

[Jaysin]

I'm actually watching Main Event... guess I have a serious wrestling itch this last month or so.

 

Good match between Ryback and Cesaro... but I love em' both. Yeah, the guy who books monsters and EWA loves the monster and the big Swiss guy, shocker, I know.

 

At least Ryback isn't a one dimensional monster like most men with his physique.

[consortium11]

The Rock

*Sharpshooter

*Rock Bottom

*People's Elbow

*Spinebuster

 

John Cena

*5 knuckle shuffle

*Attitude Adjustment

*Shoulder Charge

 

Shared

*Bearhug

*Suplex

*Hip toss

*Clothesline

 

So about 11 moves in total, repeated and dragged out over 30 minutes... s'gonna be an epic main event.

 

Some more additions...

 

The Rock

 

Samoan Drop

Snap DDT

 

Cena

 

Top rope Legdrop to the back of the head

Fisherman Suplex/Protoplex

"Spinout" (and I use that term loosely) Powerbomb/Blue Thunder Bomb

Drop Kick

[Teh_Showtime]

That and he actually takes losses. The guy hasn't won on PPV in 6 months and is still crazy over.

 

For 99% of people trying to get established as a main eventer that would be a disaster (see Wade Barrett)

[bigtplaystew]

I am about to tell you something that is going to blow your mind. Every WWE wrestler on TV has about 5 go-to moves that they mix with basic slams, holds, and strikes. Even our beloved CM Punk. Even our beloved Daniel Bryan.

[djthefunkchris]

I am about to tell you something that is going to blow your mind. Every WWE wrestler on TV has about 5 go-to moves that they mix with basic slams, holds, and strikes. Even our beloved CM Punk. Even our beloved Daniel Bryan.

 

If people actually did count the moves they seen with all of their fav's, and compared it to the one's they love to critique, they wouldn't really be able to critique them anymore, at least not in that way.

 

So, no... nobody do it, and disregard bigtplaystew's post.

[Teh_Showtime]

I am about to tell you something that is going to blow your mind. Every WWE wrestler on TV has about 5 go-to moves that they mix with basic slams, holds, and strikes. Even our beloved CM Punk. Even our beloved Daniel Bryan.

 

It's based on recognition and used to cue the crowd in that the babyface is coming back yeah we all know this

 

The difference is some wrestlers mix tons of different moves in with their sequence sometimes and some people's entire offense and psychology revolves around those moves.

[consortium11]

I am about to tell you something that is going to blow your mind. Every WWE wrestler on TV has about 5 go-to moves that they mix with basic slams, holds, and strikes. Even our beloved CM Punk. Even our beloved Daniel Bryan.

 

Absolutely. The nature of WWEs product means that vast majority of offence will be of the "basic" variety. In some ways this actually helps as it increases the impact when a "big" move is actually done. Even on the indies you'll actually find that a lot of the better workers deliberately limit their offensive arsenal... Cesaro/Castagnoli built most of his matches around European uppercut variations, the Ricola Bomb, the bicycle kick, the UFO, the Alpamare Waterslide and some moves designed to hype his strength (Karelin lifts and 60 second giant swings and suplexes). Chris Hero's gimmick was once basically how many times he could lock someone in a cravate during a match.

 

One of the most stereotypical "indy" things you'll see is workers who bust out three dozen moves over the course of a match. Teddy Hart seems to be the perfect example... he's fantastically athletic, has a great selection of moves (as well as being crazy as hell) but within five minutes of a match starting you'll likely see about eight different "big" moves with little transition between them. I think it was an old CZW match I watched which featured a top rope half-nelson suplex by Dan Maff... which came mid-match and got a two count. It was an impressive looking move and it came in the midst of the head-drop craze which swept the indies... but it still robbed the move of impact and more importantly, robbed the next dozen moves of the same.

[Psycho Sam]

That what I call a "spot monkey", doing all those great moves with little to no reason.

[Comradebot]

That what I call a "spot monkey", doing all those great moves with little to no reason.

 

Agreed.

 

I don't know where people got the idea that good wrestler=zany moveset.

 

Psychology, selling, being able to connect to the crowd... those are the real keys, imo. A varied moveset is just icing if you've got it, but if I have to choose I'll go with the guy who can tell a story in the ring over the one who just knows how to do a bunch of moves.

 

And yes, some guys can do both, but they're a pretty rare breed... and that's before you weed out those who are hopelessly unmarketable. John Cena may only have half a dozen moves in his arsenal, but he:

 

1. Has the look.

2. Can connect with the crowd.

3. Can tell a story in the ring (and it's not his fault the story is booked 98% of the time to be "John Cena is god".)

 

Andre the Giant couldn't do much more than a body slam and some pretty basic holds... but he's still 500x the wrestler a lot of indie guys today who pull out all kinds of crazy dives and suplexes, because the man knew how to work the crowd and tell a story in the ring.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I loved Dean Malenko, but having a thousand different holds doesn't make a guy the face of a company, not alone at least. The man was an in-ring beast, but you'd go out of business if you were a WWE sized company and tried to make your main event nothing but Dean Malenkos.

 

And a good point by consortium11: "big moves" lose their impact if you make them over abundant. I remember an e-fed wrestler in a fed I was in a few years back, who's base moveset was basically nothing but the most ridiculous, over the top moves that exist in wrestling. His worker was designed to start off the match hitting Death Valley Drivers, 450 Splashes, Top Rope Samoan Drops, Tombstone Piledrivers, Burning Hammers (seriously, the Burning Hammer was one of his "base" moves), the GTS... basically a massive list of finishing moves.

 

His actual finishers were things the Smackdown! create-a-finisher stuff would've likely been unable to replicate, as they were ultra-convoluted and over the top.

 

The worst part being, the guy was super serious about it. His character wasn't some kind of parody or in-joke towards the indies, he was legitimately some tard who thought it was cool if his e-fed wrestler busted out with Burning Hammers like they were arm drags (and the character itself was basically very poorly written Heath Ledger Joker fanfiction). He even wrote matches this way (until the fed stopped letting him). Every move ended up being a top rope/off the cage suplex/dive/drop through tables and barbed wire, followed by a kick out. I've seen a drunken Sandman show more psychology. Though it was fun when I got the honor to write my match-up with him, and I used his legit, listed moveset and had him hit a bunch of his "base" moves on my character... and the KICK OUT WITH AUTHORITY BAW GAWHD before the one count.

 

Sorry for the tangent, but the idea of "BAWH GaWD CRAZY MOVES AND KICK OUTS!!!" reminded me of him. His character sucked, he sucked, and if he ever reads this then let him know I'm fully honest about it all.

[Psycho Sam]

And a good point by consortium11: "big moves" lose their impact if you make them over abundant. I remember an e-fed wrestler in a fed I was in a few years back, who's base moveset was basically nothing but the most ridiculous, over the top moves that exist in wrestling. His worker was designed to start off the match hitting Death Valley Drivers, 450 Splashes, Top Rope Samoan Drops, Tombstone Piledrivers, Burning Hammers (seriously, the Burning Hammer was one of his "base" moves), the GTS... basically a massive list of finishing moves.

 

His actual finishers were things the Smackdown! create-a-finisher stuff would've likely been unable to replicate, as they were ultra-convoluted and over the top.

 

The worst part being, the guy was super serious about it. His character wasn't some kind of parody or in-joke towards the indies, he was legitimately some tard who thought it was cool if his e-fed wrestler busted out with Burning Hammers like they were arm drags (and the character itself was basically very poorly written Heath Ledger Joker fanfiction). He even wrote matches this way (until the fed stopped letting him). Every move ended up being a top rope/off the cage suplex/dive/drop through tables and barbed wire, followed by a kick out. I've seen a drunken Sandman show more psychology. Though it was fun when I got the honor to write my match-up with him, and I used his legit, listed moveset and had him hit a bunch of his "base" moves on my character... and the KICK OUT WITH AUTHORITY BAW GAWHD before the one count.

 

Wait a minute, he has the BURNING F***ING HAMMER AS A BASE MOVE!!! How the hell did the e-fed let him in?

 

Hell, the match was probably entertaining.

 

BURNING HAMMER! BURNING HAMMER! BAW GAWD HE HIT THE BURNING HAMMER! Stupid Jobber covers C-Bot! Kickout just after he covered him! BAW GAWD! KICK OUT WITH AUTHORITAH!

 

I wonder, what was in the match?

 

E-Fed character I'm making right now is a spot monkey debuting rookie who would still be realistic. He's a spot monkey, but I'm restricting his moveset a bit (only move that I took out was the Final Atomic Buster, but when I get to writing his base moveset, I'll likely take away some more). And yes, I'm still working on it. Only move I'm certain of staying in would be Guile's Flash Kick.

 

 

My main e-fed character is primarily a brawler, but he only has a Hurricanrana as a signature move. It'd probably be stupid for an Andre-esque character to suddenly pop out Triple Corkscrew Moonsaults out of nowhere.

[consortium11]

Agreed.

 

I don't know where people got the idea that good wrestler=zany moveset.

 

Psychology, selling, being able to connect to the crowd... those are the real keys, imo. A varied moveset is just icing if you've got it, but if I have to choose I'll go with the guy who can tell a story in the ring over the one who just knows how to do a bunch of moves.

 

One note of caution about this.

 

A couple of years back Raven was doing one of his tours of the various indy promotions and shoot videos where he was making the same point... all these young indy kids could do a whole bunching of jumpy, spinny, droppy on the heady stuff but they couldn't tell a story in a match; it was move, rest, move, move, other guys move, move, rest, move, move, move pinfall. He was describing his own matches and the stories he was telling. The way he described it the matches sounded amazing... deep, meaningful, realistic.

 

Then I saw some of his matches...

 

And they were dire. Simply awful. The sort of indy style over the top spot monkey stuff is pretty bad but, for all its sins you can at least see that jumpy, spinny stuff that may lose it's impact but is at least good the first couple of times (and good workers recognise this... there's a reason Ricochet stopped pulling out double moonsaults at every indy show) where as a match with a "story" when the story is awful is just... well, pretty awful.

 

It's a situation where something is far better on paper or being described than it is in person. The closest example I can probably think of is Bernard Hopkins in boxing. If you watch him train or listen to him talk about a bout it's fascinating and insightful. If you actually watch him box (at least in recent years) it's an exercise in defeating insomnia.

[Self]

Hmm. Come to think of it, I haven't watched a Raven match in a long time. I do enjoy the things he says... in small doses. The man grates on my nerves.

 

Despite having a veritable 5 moves of doom himself, Bret Hart talked recently about how he likes to see new moves and innovation in wrestlers, criticizing Triple H as a guy who has never done that. Whereas CM Punk and Rey Mysterio are guys who create new moves and new variations that crowds haven't seen before. I remember him being a fan of Melina a few years back. Her flexibility certainly added innovation.

 

I'm on the Raven bandwagon of "you only need 5". However, I like to see variety and innovation in getting those moves. Randy Orton has a bunch of different ways to get to the RKO. Punk, Mysterio, Jericho... they get to their limited WWE movesets in unlimited ways. Which makes them interesting. Stuff happens and then WOAH he's going for the Walls of Jericho. Or it's a wacky running sequence and Drop Toe Hold! Dial it up, Rey! The 5 moves of doom feels flat when it's the exact same sequence done in the exact same way every time. Oddly enough, something you can pin of Bret doing in his prime.

[cappyboy]

 

And a good point by consortium11: "big moves" lose their impact if you make them over abundant. I remember an e-fed wrestler in a fed I was in a few years back, who's base moveset was basically nothing but the most ridiculous, over the top moves that exist in wrestling. His worker was designed to start off the match hitting Death Valley Drivers, 450 Splashes, Top Rope Samoan Drops, Tombstone Piledrivers, Burning Hammers (seriously, the Burning Hammer was one of his "base" moves), the GTS... basically a massive list of finishing moves.

 

His actual finishers were things the Smackdown! create-a-finisher stuff would've likely been unable to replicate, as they were ultra-convoluted and over the top.

 

The worst part being, the guy was super serious about it. His character wasn't some kind of parody or in-joke towards the indies, he was legitimately some tard who thought it was cool if his e-fed wrestler busted out with Burning Hammers like they were arm drags (and the character itself was basically very poorly written Heath Ledger Joker fanfiction). He even wrote matches this way (until the fed stopped letting him). Every move ended up being a top rope/off the cage suplex/dive/drop through tables and barbed wire, followed by a kick out. I've seen a drunken Sandman show more psychology. Though it was fun when I got the honor to write my match-up with him, and I used his legit, listed moveset and had him hit a bunch of his "base" moves on my character... and the KICK OUT WITH AUTHORITY BAW GAWHD before the one count.

 

Sorry for the tangent, but the idea of "BAWH GaWD CRAZY MOVES AND KICK OUTS!!!" reminded me of him. His character sucked, he sucked, and if he ever reads this then let him know I'm fully honest about it all.

 

Amen to the Nth degree, Brother Comradebot. This reminds me of one of my first big matchwriting assignments in e-w. I'd started out in this fed where we wrote our own matches mostly aginst preset jobbers. Although we did eventually get to the point where we were directly feuding with one another. Fifteen years laters I still wish I could have completed my feud with Dan Mastroeini's handler. Dude did awesome work and I'd love to have seen what a Masstroeini/ Mitchell Davis blowoff would have looked like.

 

Instead shortly after that fed closed, I started getting opportunities to write for other places. One of my first big matches was a title ladder match for this place ironically called GLOW. Ironic in that none of the competitors were women. It pitted this solid arounder named Victor V. Hill vs Kris Klepan. Whose app as quite over the top. Not as bad as the guy you're describing here. But it was very hard to get my head around. He had a lot of these ultra-fancy, high impact Japanese type moves I absolutely, positively couldn't relate to. So what I did during the match was use what I knew of Klepan's moveset and let Hill carry the match since he was the more relatable wrestler.

 

And when the match was over, Klepan didn't just lose. Hill got to the belt. But rather than have a firm footing on the ladder and pull it safely down, I did one of those spots where Hill's dangling by the belt because the ladder's fallen out from under him. So when Hill jerks the belt free, not only does he win the match he squashes Klepan underneath him in the fall. I just couldn't resist adding insult to Klepan's injury for making my life as writer so difficult. Moral of the story: You want to succeed in e-wrestling, you don't confuse the match writer.

[infinitywpi]

Also, let's not forget these guys are working together in there -- having a smaller 'moveset' means the guys you work with don't have to know how to sell everything under the sun, or the correct position to be in to start or end twenty-five different transitional moves, or how to escape a dozen submission without making it look bad.

 

If you get told, "Hey, plans changed, we need you to job to Cena tonight," well, you know what you're in for and what moves to remember you need to help with what you need to sell. Get told "You're facing Spot Monkey tonight" and you've got no idea what crazy **** he's going to try to work into the match...

[Mattywood]

And a good point by consortium11: "big moves" lose their impact if you make them over abundant. I remember an e-fed wrestler in a fed I was in a few years back, who's base moveset was basically nothing but the most ridiculous, over the top moves that exist in wrestling. His worker was designed to start off the match hitting Death Valley Drivers, 450 Splashes, Top Rope Samoan Drops, Tombstone Piledrivers, Burning Hammers (seriously, the Burning Hammer was one of his "base" moves), the GTS... basically a massive list of finishing moves.

 

His actual finishers were things the Smackdown! create-a-finisher stuff would've likely been unable to replicate, as they were ultra-convoluted and over the top.

 

The worst part being, the guy was super serious about it. His character wasn't some kind of parody or in-joke towards the indies, he was legitimately some tard who thought it was cool if his e-fed wrestler busted out with Burning Hammers like they were arm drags (and the character itself was basically very poorly written Heath Ledger Joker fanfiction). He even wrote matches this way (until the fed stopped letting him). Every move ended up being a top rope/off the cage suplex/dive/drop through tables and barbed wire, followed by a kick out. I've seen a drunken Sandman show more psychology. Though it was fun when I got the honor to write my match-up with him, and I used his legit, listed moveset and had him hit a bunch of his "base" moves on my character... and the KICK OUT WITH AUTHORITY BAW GAWHD before the one count.

 

Sorry for the tangent, but the idea of "BAWH GaWD CRAZY MOVES AND KICK OUTS!!!" reminded me of him. His character sucked, he sucked, and if he ever reads this then let him know I'm fully honest about it all.

 

Kijar can attest to this. That guy would not have had that move set very long in my e-fed. I can be a hard ass, but the people who are not spoiled, entitled brats know it's only when I need to be and understand why I can be.