The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[milamber]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="RayW" data-cite="RayW" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>So, I was reading on another forum people complaining that Daniel Bryan is still being held down by the WWE. I've never really commented on this, and since that forum is full of nonsensical fanboys who like to flame war, I thought I'd share my views here instead.<p> </p><p> It seems that the WWE is caught between a rock and a hard place, because no matter what they do with Daniel Bryan, it isn't good enough. There's only one thing, apparently, that would keep the fans happy, and that is Bryan winning the World Title at WrestleMania. This, I think should be fairly obvious, isn't going to happen. Bryan is pretty much set to face Triple H on the big stage, and more than most likely will go over. However, still fans seem to think that the guy is being held down by creative, which is a completely insane view point to have. Daniel Bryan's journey is one of a few major storylines in the company right now, he get's as much screen time as John Cena, Randy Orton and Batista, and is constantly being featured in their media (website, etc.). Not to mention that over the last twelve months Daniel Bryan has featured in six main event's on PPV. Ok, so two of them PPV's were the Elimination Chamber and Money In The Bank matches, but he was still in the final matches on them cards. That puts him level with Cena and two behind Randy Orton (including their title match at Royal Rumble, if we remove that then he is one ahead of Cena and one behind Orton). The closest anyone comes to that figure are Shemus and Christian, both with two each, but both matches were the Elimination Chamber and Money In The Bank matches.</p><p> </p><p> This view that the WWE hate's its audience is just bizarre to me. Daniel Bryan has been heavily featured for a year, he is up there with the WWE Champion and John Cena. He is in a storyline where the people in charge don't want him to succeed, and they are trying their best to keep him down, yet Daniel Bryan always seems to come out on top, only to be screwed over. Yeah, it's a storyline.</p><p> </p><p> It just has me bemused that people that consider themselves 'smart' to the business are getting so bent out of shape over a storyline which they genuinely believe is true. They genuinely believe that Triple H and the McMahon's hate him and don't want him anywhere near the main event. Despite being in six of twelve PPV main events. Despite being in one of the hottest storylines of the past year. Oh my beloved wrestling fans, aren't we a fickle bunch?</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Well put. A few points to add:</p><p> </p><p> - Bryan has been in an underdog storyline since NXT. It's a good role that he's nailed time and time again. But with each storyline he's been pushed closer to the main event. Despite that, very few people actually thought he'd get this high in the company or be so popular with the masses. WWE deserve credit for giving Bryan the chance to prove himself with these pushes.</p><p> </p><p> - Bryan pulled double duty multiple times last year. He also pushes guys like Cena to the limit even on TV where they are protected against most opponents. This shows faith by the WWE in his ability.</p><p> </p><p> - Giving Bryan the title won't make him more popular. He's already more over than anyone (bar Punk if he returns). He's in a position where he gets plenty of match time (more than anyone in 2013) and frequently main events shows. Unless he can get close to Cena in merch sales there is no need for WWE to give him a long title reign except as fan service or when the storylines require it. But it's bound to happen this year and it'll probably be against Batista at Summerslam. I'm happy to wait.</p>

[Teh_Showtime]

<p>Giving Bryan the title won't make him more popular, but its basic storytelling. It makes no sense for Batista to be the one to en Orton instead of the guy who has been cheated out of the title for the last six months.</p><p> </p><p>

To me its the same as TNA having Aries win the title from Bobby Roode instead of letting Storm end his journey and win the title. Storm won a fantastic match, but he hasn't been nearly as over since. The only difference is that people accepted Aries and it was easy to justify because of it. Batista is currently getting so much heat to the point that they have to make him vs Orton a heel vs heel feud.</p>

[Hive]

<p>Back in the old days, when the beloved face didn't win the belt, fans give the heels heat for - usually - cheating their way to keeping the belt.</p><p> </p><p>

Nowadays, when the beloved face doesn't win the belt, fans give the promotion heat for "holding him back" or "screwing the fans".</p><p> </p><p>

Thing is: it was and always will be good storyline to have the underdog face fight against the odds week after week, coming close but not winning the title, untill finally, after a long struggle, winning it for a huge payoff. Seeing Daniel Bryan chase the title makes money, it puts asses in the seats.</p>

[TNAfan123]

<p>I honestly just don't get it with DB, why do people like him so much? He can wrestle, ok but mic wise his average at best and often bores me.</p><p> </p><p>

The WWE has made him over with a simple but catchy gimmick.The "Yes"chats would have taken off with any wrestler on the roster, it's something the friends like cheering imo.</p>

[Teh_Showtime]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TNAfan123" data-cite="TNAfan123" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I honestly just don't get it with DB, why do people like him so much? He can wrestle, ok but mic wise his average at best and often bores me.<p> </p><p> The WWE has made him over with a simple but catchy gimmick.The "Yes"chats would have taken off with any wrestler on the roster, it's something the friends like cheering imo.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> because he is by far the best wrestler of the 2000s?</p><p> </p><p> and as for him chasing the title, it was great until they avoided giving him what would have been the logical babyface final victory. You cant have him challenge (and lose) at every PPV since SummerSlam and so they had him occupied with the Wyatts for a while. This isn't the 80s where heels can make your guy look like a million bucks and won't be seen again for a long time. If a guy keeps failing at the big match they eventually get a stigma and fans don't buy into them as much. Hell the easiest example of this is ADR in 2011, he was red hot going into the year and then lost to Edge and Christian back to back for the title, won MITB and the title, lost to Cena and then Punk within a month of each other also and he hasn't been nearly as over since.</p><p> </p><p> Of course Bryan is far different than ADR but you can't keep telling the audience that this guy is <em>almost</em> good enough or else they will give up on him altogether.</p>

[RayW]

<p>I get that people want to see him reach his goal of having a run with the title, but we need to realise that that isn't going to be happening anytime soon, so him playing second fiddle to main storyline of Orton / Batista is not a bad thing. We've seen the WWE many times over the past decade pick up and drop wrestlers as and when they want too. We've seen wrestler being Champion one week and jobbing the next, but that hasn't happened to Daniel Bryan. He's firmly established himself at the top of the card, but unfortunately the WWE see's more money in a Batista WrestleMania main event (I see their line of thinking; his new movie is going to be heavily promoted and they want him holding the WWE Title while he is on talk shows bigging up the movie).</p><p> </p><p>

Now, the harsh reality is that Bryan will be no where near the title picture for the foreseeable future, so what is second best? They continue their authority storyline and keep Bryan at the top of the card while he comes up against The Authority. The other option is that he does a Ziggler, ADR, Miz, etc. and goes back to midcard obscurity.</p>

[bigtplaystew]

<p>I think WWE doesn't hate their audience, i think they ARE stubborn and don't particularly care about crowd response at times. I think creative thinks they know what we want more than we do sometimes. And maybe they're right on occasion, but other times it's a no brainer.</p><p> </p><p>

I think the way Zack Ryder got treated when crowds were on their feet for him was an example of "You don't like this guy, I don't care how much you think you like him. Trust us, you don't." Same could be said for Ziggler at different points. Were they right? I don't know. But don't act like Zack Ryder got opportunities when he was booked as Kane's whipping boy the second he got some real momentum going. They absolutely consciously buried a loyal hard worker who was getting hot. They didn't give a crap that we liked him and found him entertaining. They just knew better and buried the guy. </p><p> </p><p>

So as unreasonable as "WWE hate's it's audience" can be, I think that they have displayed a history of stubbornness and arrogance on who to push and who not to push. And that's where that comes from.</p><p> </p><p>

I think the Daniel Bryan situation is different. Him winning Royal Rumble and going on to wrestlemania would have been classic wrestling storytelling and it's what we wanted, but it's also predictable. They have really only two options creatively at that point: Put the belt on him like everyone thinks you will or 2) throw a dumb swerve in. That's really the only two ways to go with it. So I'm thinking (maybe more accurately hoping) that WWE has something up their sleeve with him. Something shocking and something that hasn't been done 20 times. But I agree that anyone who feels dB isn't getting his shot doesn't undertstand the business even a little bit. Dude's on TV more than just abotu anyone right now and I'd think he's making a nice chunk of change for his efforts.</p>

[christmas_ape]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="bigtplaystew" data-cite="bigtplaystew" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I think WWE doesn't hate their audience, i think they ARE stubborn and don't particularly care about crowd response at times. I think creative thinks they know what we want more than we do sometimes. And maybe they're right on occasion, but other times it's a no brainer.<p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> That's exactly how I'd put it. </p><p> </p><p> Although I do disagree with the idea that the fans should be happy with how Bryan is being used. You can say that being in a major match at Wrestlemania is enough but it just isn't (I would also say facing Triple H isn't so major as much as I do like him.) if Wrestlemania doesn't end with Bryan with the belt and the whole arena in a Yes chant then they have just missed a huge opportunity. I'm on course not saying that he is being buried or anything stupid like that but the argument that being in a major storyline is enough would perhaps be right for people like Ziggler last year but not for Bryan now. Yes he is now comfortably in the main event but letting him headline Wrestlemania is the one thing that could truly make him a superstar.</p>

[Self]

<p>WWE wont always heed the opinions of wrestling fans because... Why would they? Wrestling fans are already watching, and will continue to watch and pay for programming simply because it's wrestling. They care about what everyone else thinks. The fringe fans. The casuals. The potential consumer. </p><p> </p><p>

Daniel Bryan is small. He just is. Put him on a talk show, and the host will be taller than him. That matters. That's perception. Thats image. He's an amazing performer, but as a focal point of the company on their biggest show of the year? I really like Bryan (matches a little reptitive lately?) but I see exactly where WWE would have issues. </p><p> </p><p>

Batista is big. Batista is in movies. Looks like a fighter. I get the theory behind it. Although it amuses me how spectacularly it was rejected by live audiences.</p>

[RayW]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="christmas_ape" data-cite="christmas_ape" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>That's exactly how I'd put it. <p> </p><p> Although I do disagree with the idea that the fans should be happy with how Bryan is being used. You can say that being in a major match at Wrestlemania is enough but it just isn't (I would also say facing Triple H isn't so major as much as I do like him.) if Wrestlemania doesn't end with Bryan with the belt and the whole arena in a Yes chant then they have just missed a huge opportunity. I'm on course not saying that he is being buried or anything stupid like that but the argument that being in a major storyline is enough would perhaps be right for people like Ziggler last year but not for Bryan now. Yes he is now comfortably in the main event but letting him headline Wrestlemania is the one thing that could truly make him a superstar.</p></div></blockquote><p> But what I am saying is this: Daniel Bryan being in the title picture isn't an option. The WWE don't want him there, and no matter how much the fans chant Yes! Yes! Yes! that isn't going to change. They want the Hollywood star who is going to be in this spring/summers blockbuster to hold the title to try and bring more awareness to the brand. Remember, when Batista is on these talk shows hyping his movie he will also be hyping not just the WWE, but the WWE Network. That is big money for the WWE.</p><p> </p><p> I'm not saying Batista deserves it. He doesn't. Guys like Bryan and Ziggler deserve it before he does, but that is the harsh truth.</p><p> </p><p> Now, on the flip side, WWE could have just forgot about Daniel Bryan. They could just go 'well, he isn't in the title picture, we'll just have him go into an angle with Fandango', but instead they continue the storyline that started last summer.</p><p> </p><p> You know I've said this many times in the past and I think it's warranted here so I'll say it again; holding the title doesn't make you the number one guy in the company. The fans make you the number one. And Daniel Bryan is the number one guy right now, WWE know it, but their plans are set.</p>

[Jaysin]

A Fandango and D-Bry feud could produce some fantastic matches.

[christmas_ape]

True, but I do think Bryan can be a perfect 'face of the WWE'. I think to be the guy who does all the talk shows and stuff like that is less about image and more personality. Especially with how the WWE want to appear you'd think the super reliable, likeable, eco-friendly vegetarian that both kids and adults like is perfect. And the YES chant breaking out into some mainstream things certainly helps.

[Jaysin]

He hasn't been vegetarian for awhile.

[TheBooker]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jaysin" data-cite="Jaysin" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>He hasn't been vegetarian for awhile.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> He's a vegan not a vegetarian and he is no longer a vegan.</p>

[Self]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="christmas_ape" data-cite="christmas_ape" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>True, but I do think Bryan can be a perfect 'face of the WWE'. I think to be the guy who does all the talk shows and stuff like that is less about image and more personality. Especially with how the WWE want to appear you'd think the super reliable, likeable, eco-friendly vegetarian that both kids and adults like is perfect. And the YES chant breaking out into some mainstream things certainly helps.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I agree he brings a lot of positives to te table, but to the outside observer WWE is about fighting, and a 5'8 dude isn't going to project that image, especially when he's a nice friendly chap to boot. Personality is important, but image still matters.</p>

[Teh_Showtime]

<p>I don't think that comparison is as relevant in modern society, especially with the prevalence of MMA. I think it does have a little bit of bearing on things from an outside viewpoint, but when smaller guys are some of the biggest names in legitimate sports like Mayweather, GSP, etc it isn't nearly as relevant as it was 15 or even 10 years ago.</p><p> </p><p>

People aren't going to decide to not watch WWE because Bryan is small. That would probably be like 5th or 6th on the possible reasons.</p>

[Russelrules44]

<p>THE USOS HAVE DONE IT! THEY'VE FINALLY WON THE TAG TEAM TITLES! SERVES YOU RIGHT ROAD DOGG, SERVES, YOU, RIGHT!</p><p> </p><p>

(But I will admit though, It does end the possibility of them being at WrestleMania for The New Age Outlaws.)</p>

[Arrows]

<p>Wow. Punk's return was so amazing. Did you see the roof come off that place?</p><p> </p><p>

Oh....wait. Everyone was wrong. Big shocker there.<img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/rolleyes.png.4b097f4fbbe99ce5bcd5efbc1b773ed6.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[delv213]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Arrows" data-cite="Arrows" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Wow. Punk's return was so amazing. Did you see the roof come off that place?<p> </p><p> Oh....wait. Everyone was wrong. Big shocker there.<img alt=":rolleyes:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/rolleyes.png.4b097f4fbbe99ce5bcd5efbc1b773ed6.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> There is no way they planned or are planning on doing a Heel vs Heel title match for Wrestlemania 30. The only reason they did that is for the sole purpose of putting a babyface in the match to make it a 3 way. Either that or Orton turns babyface for some odd reason, which doesn't make sense if it happens without Triple H turning on him to give him some sympathy. If they don't do something, It'll be an epic 15 minutes of people chanting random stuff like they were at the Rumble during Orton vs Cena. </p><p> </p><p> I expect Raw's ratings to get a decent bump this week since the internet actually believed Punk was returning tonight.</p>

[TNAfan123]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="delv213" data-cite="delv213" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>There is no way they planned or are planning on doing a Heel vs Heel title match for Wrestlemania 30. The only reason they did that is for the sole purpose of putting a babyface in the match to make it a 3 way. Either that or Orton turns babyface for some odd reason, which doesn't make sense if it happens without Triple H turning on him to give him some sympathy. If they don't do something, It'll be an epic 15 minutes of people chanting random stuff like they were at the Rumble during Orton vs Cena. <p> </p><p> <strong>I expect Raw's ratings to get a decent bump this week since the internet actually believed Punk was returning tonight.</strong></p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> You are over estimating the size of the IWC. The IWC is about 10% of wrestling fans the rating my increase like 0.02.</p>

[bigtplaystew]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="delv213" data-cite="delv213" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I expect Raw's ratings to get a decent bump this week since <strong>the internet actually believed Punk was returning tonight</strong>.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> You say that as if you didn't.</p><p> </p><p> From the day before:</p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="delv213" data-cite="delv213" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>All I expect now is a Batista vs Punk vs Orton match for Mania setup <strong>when</strong> Punk comes out tomorrow night and cuts a worked shoot...</div></blockquote>

[delv213]

<p>^ What am I posting on? A potato lol? Everyone who posts in this thread is part of the IWC.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TNAfan123" data-cite="TNAfan123" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You are over estimating the size of the IWC. The IWC is about 10% of wrestling fans the rating my increase like 0.02.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I think even marks believed that CM Punk's return could've happened tonight after the way they opened it, since they usually get the biggest ratings in the first hour and have a downward spiral after that (probably because the children aren't allowed to stay up past a certain hour).</p><p> </p><p> Raw's coming off of Undertakers return and Hogan's return. The ratings were do for a bump this week and it opened up with Paul Heyman cutting an awesome promo hyping up that Punk's return could be a reality for the rest of the night.. Where Raw's rating usually declines is the third hour, with the possibility of a Undertaker appearance or a Punk appearance the ratings should've stayed the course. Not to mention they hyped a Batista vs Bryan match pretty well.</p>

[bigtplaystew]

<p>Just pointing out that you predicted Punk's return... actually predict is a bad word. You arrogantly stated it as if it was fact because you read it in a dirt sheet. </p><p> </p><p>

Then you spoke in a manner in which you felt like EVERYONE else were the suckers who bought it, and not you. Since you're now going with the "lol of course i bought it" defense we're all good. Just making sure you know you were wrong like lots of other people were. </p><p> </p><p>

I'm not above it. I thought he was coming back tonight. On that topic I thought the Paul Heyman promo, even though it was masterful microphone work, was a pretty crappy move. I don't know why they did it but it didn't do much to quell the disruptive chants if that was their reason. It didnt add any real heat to Lesnar. All it did was piss people off. I'm not so sure I'm behind their strategy of pissing people off every week leading into mania, but it's still a good ways away so we'll see how it plays out.</p>

[delv213]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="bigtplaystew" data-cite="bigtplaystew" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Just pointing out that you predicted Punk's return... actually predict is a bad word. You arrogantly stated it as if it was fact because you read it in a dirt sheet. <p> </p><p> Then you spoke in a manner in which you felt like EVERYONE else were the suckers who bought it, and not you. Since you're now going with the "lol of course i bought it" defense we're all good. Just making sure you know you were wrong like lots of other people were. </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I spoke in an arrogant manner? More like you read what I wrote in an arrogant manner. I never once said I didn't expect Punk to be there, I being on the internet, read that every credible dirtsheet was writing that Punk was going to be on Raw and thus being part of a large majority. AKA: The Internet Wrestling Community believed Punk was going to be on Raw.</p><p> </p><p> Hard not to sound arrogant when dirtsheets are right 90% of the time. It's not like the WWE product isn't written and that people who write it don't leak out information. Dolphins1925 is proof of that. The guy is right 90-100% of the time and the few changes that are done, are done last minute so that WWE throws us a curve-ball.</p><p> </p><p> Regardless of my mindless rant and your somewhat obvious demeaning reply, we still got 4 more weeks of Raw programming before Wrestlemania. Punk's anticipated return could very well happen on Raw next week. We can only hope. I don't want to see Batista vs Orton 20.</p>

[Blackman]

<p>Just watched NXT Arrival and I mean: come on. Heyman's going in the crowd to have someone claim that he came to see "all the matches" to have his selfie taken. He's going on to another person that basically repeats it. I will eat my hat if that wasn't prepared to the fullest. Come on WWE. Go along with the new television trends and don't just prepare all of it. The entire pre-show was just a piece of crap. They take themselves way too seriously for just a fake wrestling business. Don't get me wrong: I still think their style is best for mainstream obviously, but it comes off as ridiculous. UFC can have pre-shows and post-shows. WWE should just be restricted to post-shows that have the ability to hype and stuff. Pre-shows are pointless and take away from the actual experience. In a way, it did help me because I missed a lot of the history (for example: 'Cesaro vs Zayn III') and it does add to the enjoyment. But the whole talkshow thing seems unnecessary.</p><p> </p><p>

Now I DO realize that I don't have to watch everything. WWE's expanding their program to cater to everybody.</p><p> </p><p>

As for 'Emma'. When she first was announced as a new signee from SHIMMER, I thought: "No way. Why her?". I see now that she has a gimmick that fits her just perfectly. Brilliant work by WWE's creative team, who btw are about the only reason I turn twitter on sometimes.</p>