The Official TNA / Impact / GFW Discussion Thread

[Slagaholic]

Catholicism and the Religious Right are not synonyms.

 

Pope goes to the top of the Catholic religious good chain. The other religions don't really listen to the Pope...and why should they?

[cappyboy]

Catholicism and the Religious Right are not synonyms.

 

Pope goes to the top of the Catholic religious good chain. The other religions don't really listen to the Pope...and why should they?

 

Sounds like someone was skimming. I never said they were. I said the church I was connecting to in my teen years could be Religious Right in the extreme at times. And how they would have reacted badly to Pope feeling he mocked people of faith. And projecting that Catholics might have more direct reasons to feel similarly because it was their leader's title being taken. Granted I don't know the Catholic perspective near as well. So that projection could be completely off. But I could envision it based on what I saw in church circles.

 

As for why other denominations should care, keep in mind the mentality I was describing. They tend to see attacks even when they don't necessarily need to. Like I remember when The Last Temptation of Christ was out. They made a big thing out of boycotting the flick and those who sponsored it. But had they done their research, they'd have discovered they didn't need to boycott it to keep folks away. That it was considered a hunk of junk movie to start with and would have collapsed under its own weight if left alone. But the Fairhaven type mentality actually kept the movie afloat a bit longer as folks went to see what all the stink was about.

[Slagaholic]

You're doing a lot of assuming, going "well I grew up around it" to describe how people would perceive the character Pope D'Angelo Dinero. You don't know for sure, and that segment of the religious population you're talking about wouldn't watch TNA anyway considering the name.

 

The Last Temptation of Christ was a fantastic movie btw.

[Jaysin]

It's the same beat but with different lyrics.

 

It's the same music with no lyrics. It has no vocals at all.

[Slagaholic]

I coulda sworn I heard vocals last week. Oh well.

[dvdWarrior]

What does you cousin think of Pope, I wonder? He seems like the most blasphemous character around right now.

 

Actually, he never seemed to have a problem with The Pope. He said he was overrated a time or two, and couldn't understand why I liked him so much, (I think his promos are pretty cool, Desmond Ruffie and whatnot). But, no, he's never had that kind of a problem with him.

[djthefunkchris]

You're doing a lot of assuming, going "well I grew up around it" to describe how people would perceive the character Pope D'Angelo Dinero. You don't know for sure, and that segment of the religious population you're talking about wouldn't watch TNA anyway considering the name.

 

The Last Temptation of Christ was a fantastic movie btw.

 

/nod

 

Pope's character is fine. I really don't even think most people even think of the Catholic Church when watching him (even if I did, I bet it would be more tongue and cheek thoughts), to include Catholics as well.

 

For the most part, I really don't see any difference's in people as far as religion goes, at least not in the states (unless they come from a strict church, ussually from outside of the US). I think a Catholic can laugh just as hard as me.

 

The Last Temptation of Christ was good, I don't know about fantastic, but I liked it.

 

The biggest part of the movie that had people upset was the fantasy type stuff he supposedly had, which by Christian standards (in the books), even "dreaming" of sinning is a sin. Thus, he wasn't "sin free" by that standard.

 

The other thing, or fear, had something to do with showing the Jew's wanting him dead, and the Roman Empire not really caring that much one way or another.

 

All it takes is a little reading, and you can find where they get all this stuff, and although I don't believe everything I read, I can't help but to believe that there wouldn't be so many things wrote about Mary Magdelon (spelling?) if she didn't have a bigger overall part in history then what has been collected for ease of reading in the Bible. I wouldn't mind seeing all the scripture's that were left out, and be able to make my own mind up of what is real and what is not, because personally, for me, many stories in the Bible are meant as teachings, almost fable like... and the Morale to the story is...

 

Anyways, I liked the movie, but I don't think he was up on that cross dreaming of being with a prostitute, having a family with her, etc.... I don't doubt his love for the downtrodden, just man's fantasys of what they think he thought of as a result. The movie, in my opinion, made me think the creator/writer's (the book and movie) have similar attitudes as the people that condemned him for healing such "low lifes", and thus the opinion is warped. Just because someone rich in heart/wallet/or mind helps those that are less fortunate, does not mean they want to reap rewards for their efforts. Some people do things just because they think it will help someone else (I do all the time). I can't imagine how someone cannot feel that the son of a GOD wouldn't be capable of doing the same.

 

Anyways, I like POPE, and I think WWE really missed the boat with him. I believe I said that when he left.

[spikedave]

The Band's Theme Song rocks! It sounds like the Jazz, Pop, and Rock music genre combined into one IMO!

 

I have to disagree. Its horrid. Just like Jeff Hardys Theme song.

On the other hand RVD Theme song rocks!

[fatallylost]

You're doing a lot of assuming, going "well I grew up around it" to describe how people would perceive the character Pope D'Angelo Dinero. You don't know for sure, and that segment of the religious population you're talking about wouldn't watch TNA anyway considering the name.

 

The Last Temptation of Christ was a fantastic movie btw.

 

I don't want to get into it, but, religion also assumes a lot of things about everything.

 

Like assuming other cultures celebrations.

[djthefunkchris]

I don't want to get into it, but, religion also assumes a lot of things about everything.

 

Like assuming other cultures celebrations.

 

Was that meant to sound like that? Funny stuff, lol. I take it your religious?

[fatallylost]

The complete opposite. I do not fault, or feel bad for people who need religion. It's given, or, gives them something they need.

 

I grew up in a non-religious house. Over the many years I've done light studying (see, if I'm not gonna get paid, or a degree, I rarely delve too deep on purpose) But, just looking at the surface stuff, things known by anyone who has a connection to the world, you can see how bad it has become, or, has been in time.

 

I really don't want this to begin any kind of religious debate, because there's no point. If "you" believe, you do, good for you. I don't, and I can't. Beyond a true miraculous act of God that proves something to me... even that can't.

 

I have a spiritual side, but, I feel the majority of religions just bamboozle people, grow hatred for certain things (other religions, rituals, etc, whatever it may be)

 

Also, the Bible is a book of stories from other peoples historical writings, stories, etc. I just dislike when people try to preach this, or that.

 

My ex is a Catholic, which never got in the way. She had her beliefs, and she put up with my blasphemy. lol.

 

Also, re-reading my post, I think the assuming others celebrations.. I think I actually meant assimilating, or something like that. Assuming works, but, maybe not as much as I meant it to.

[Remianen]

You know, Remi, I think you're missing a couple elements here. The case you make may be all well and true as far as it goes. But you forgetting the sizable chunk of audience that doesn't live in a major urban center and to whom people like The Pope aren't such regular parts of the landscape. You may be right that folks like him may be fixtures in your New Yorks and Chicagos and the like. But in places like Bangor? Or Des Moines? Or Cheyenne? Where they aren't necessary capital U urban but still urban by the regional standard. I can guarantee you not so much.

 

I tend to do that a lot. Since the majority of the time I've been alive, I've lived in major metro areas (NYC, San Fran, Houston, Miami), when I mention 'urban', I'm usually not even considering the dictionary definition. Plus, I'm pretty sure programmers don't have planning sessions to plot out how they're going to capture the Omaha TV market ("If we get Des Moines, we'll have it made!"). I've been to Cheyenne (for Frontier Days even) and I've seen more people on a subway platform at noon on a Saturday than was there during what's supposed to be a big event.

 

To be fair, people in those places don't see a lot of things I would take for granted. Extensive public transportation, for one. The sheer number of entertainment options available (at pretty much any hour of the day or night) would be another. So it doesn't surprise me in the least that there are people who wouldn't have been exposed to the local, grassroots "televangelist" (or street preacher).

 

My point was, for a large number of people (major cities tending to house large percentages of the population and all), the character isn't that shocking. And after you've been exposed to people using self-granted titles like Bishop, Archbishop, and "Black Jesus", 'Pope' doesn't resonate quite as much as it might have otherwise. Maybe you become desensitized, I dunno.

[Self]

I brought up Pope out of curiosity. Honestly I haven't seen enough of him to form a proper opinion on how blasphemous the character is, nor am I enough of a religious scholar to define 'blasphemy' (I'm pro-religion, but not actually religious myself) Pope's a cool character. Having that televangelist slant makes him colourful and memorable, which is half the battle in wrestling. I actually think turning him babyface was one of the smartest things TNA have ever done. They introduced him with the intention of being a heel, but fans reacted positively, so they adapted, turned him babyface, and pushed him to win an important tournament. Strike when the iron is hot. Cool beans.

[djthefunkchris]

The complete opposite. I do not fault, or feel bad for people who need religion. It's given, or, gives them something they need.

 

I grew up in a non-religious house. Over the many years I've done light studying (see, if I'm not gonna get paid, or a degree, I rarely delve too deep on purpose) But, just looking at the surface stuff, things known by anyone who has a connection to the world, you can see how bad it has become, or, has been in time.

 

I really don't want this to begin any kind of religious debate, because there's no point. If "you" believe, you do, good for you. I don't, and I can't. Beyond a true miraculous act of God that proves something to me... even that can't.

 

I have a spiritual side, but, I feel the majority of religions just bamboozle people, grow hatred for certain things (other religions, rituals, etc, whatever it may be)

 

Also, the Bible is a book of stories from other peoples historical writings, stories, etc. I just dislike when people try to preach this, or that.

 

My ex is a Catholic, which never got in the way. She had her beliefs, and she put up with my blasphemy. lol.

 

Also, re-reading my post, I think the assuming others celebrations.. I think I actually meant assimilating, or something like that. Assuming works, but, maybe not as much as I meant it to.

So your a non-religious person assuming religious (or religions in general) people assume things, and your statement sounds like you think that is wrong to do. So it is an even funnier statement.

 

I tend to do that a lot. Since the majority of the time I've been alive, I've lived in major metro areas (NYC, San Fran, Houston, Miami), when I mention 'urban', I'm usually not even considering the dictionary definition. Plus, I'm pretty sure programmers don't have planning sessions to plot out how they're going to capture the Omaha TV market ("If we get Des Moines, we'll have it made!"). I've been to Cheyenne (for Frontier Days even) and I've seen more people on a subway platform at noon on a Saturday than was there during what's supposed to be a big event.

 

To be fair, people in those places don't see a lot of things I would take for granted. Extensive public transportation, for one. The sheer number of entertainment options available (at pretty much any hour of the day or night) would be another. So it doesn't surprise me in the least that there are people who wouldn't have been exposed to the local, grassroots "televangelist" (or street preacher).

 

My point was, for a large number of people (major cities tending to house large percentages of the population and all), the character isn't that shocking. And after you've been exposed to people using self-granted titles like Bishop, Archbishop, and "Black Jesus", 'Pope' doesn't resonate quite as much as it might have otherwise. Maybe you become desensitized, I dunno.

 

I really think most people look at it for what it is, a role on a show. They don't think anything more about POPE then they do about someone playing as a religious person in a movie or tv show.

 

I really think some people look too hard at things, trying to find something wrong as either an excuse (this doesn't work because it's running away all the Catholic people), or just plain thinking too hard over nothing.

 

Mainly I wanted to comment on something you said about having something to do at all hours of the day or night. I live in a "major" Florida city, and I'm from Cleveland. The difference even now, after I haven't been back to Cleveland in 15 years or so, is like night and day. There was always something to do in Cleveland, and just about anything you wanted to, at any hour of the day. Something trivial like Putt-Putt, watching a movie at a theatre, listening to "insert bassically any kind of music in the world", dancing, or just plain walking around and watching all the nuts out (probably watching you in the same manner).

 

Here... Everything closes around 8 or 9pm, clubs might stay open till 1:30am-3:30AM, but your not going to find those lovely "after-hour" type spots here. The only thing that is remotely close to a "real" city, is the beach, which tries to cator to people from places like Cleveland. Even that place dies by 3:30AM (people are out, but there is nothing for them to do but go to the hotel, home, or whatever)... of course we have Walmarts and Coffe/Omelet type shops, but that's about it.

[fatallylost]

So your a non-religious person assuming religious (or religions in general) people assume things, and your statement sounds like you think that is wrong to do. So it is an even funnier statement.

 

Not at all. I can find ways where religion is wrong, and has wronged. I don't assume that, there is historical (and current history, if you will) proving that religion is not only fallible, but, utterly flawed.

 

Once again, if someone gets what they need from it, that'

s great. It's just once someone uses religion to tell someone else why they are wrong, is where I have issue.

 

Trust me, it's used very often, and, always by the wrong people. Not all Christians are bad, but, the ones who tend to speak up are the ones that should be silenced, or, don't get it.

 

I don't know how to put that last part so it doesn't sound like I mean kill them.

 

Just, common sense needs to be used, and, common sense never seems to be.

 

Also, just to be completely clear, I said (or tried to, I'm bad at making my points most times) that religions are what are incorrect. I can't fault the sheepish people who blindly follow. I just wish more people would educate themselves, and maybe, just maybe there would be less volatile relations between peoples, races, faiths, what have you.

[The Celt]

False. "Absolutely everyone on earth" is quite the hyperbolic statement. Besides the fact that it's not true (I'd bet money that pretty much only the people who think what the mainstream media "reports" is fact think Kanye's a jackass. That's a lot of people, but it's not everyone on earth).

 

Okay I didn't mean it literally, but a vast majority of people do see West as a dumbass. Type "Kanye West is" into google and see what happens when the auto-suggestion comes on

 

 

You are ignoring the obvious here. Lady Gaga is FEMALE. Bisexual FEMALES (especially if they're "hot") are looked at in a far different way in this country than bisexual MALES. Does that not pin the tail on the donkey?

 

O...kay? Um lol Are you really suggesting that to be bisexual and female (at least in America) is permissible not not to be bisexual and male? I think that statement could possibly have been made by another part of your anatomy than your brain 1. If someone is anti-gay or whatever, it's across the board, so that takes down Bisexuality as well. If someone isn't anti-gay, then bisexuality I think would likely be tolerated too. Personally I serious doubt they are many people who actually think to themselves "Yeah, F*** people who mess around both sides of the fence...unless it's girls cuz that's just hot!!"

 

You're naming all of these examples like they mean something. You're not getting to the point of the matter. Adrian Street was not active in the modern era of professional wrestling. You're giving examples of people who were at their peak long before the current environment came to be. Besides that, Goldust was completely ambiguous and he also was accompanied by what? A HOT WOMAN (who deflected attention from him, to an extent).

 

Actually I think the opposite. I think the fact Adrian Street was running around in the 70s and 80s is HIGHLY significance. Back then they was ALOT less tolerance of anyone gay. In fact Street was probably lucky not to be lynched in a couple of places. By the by, Street also took to the ring with him a hot valet as part of his deal...didn't stop him attempting to kiss opponents into submission lol

 

It was a different time. I get that Bischoff thinks that all controversy is good for business, but this isn't the way to go about it. He should be trying to stir up the Cooper Lawrences of the world, not inciting his existing audience.

 

Personally I don't think the mission statement of OJ is to stir up Gaybashers. I think it's a gimmick representing a lifestyle, and it's gives OJ personality. In this case, by the bucket load.

 

 

I think the Orlando Jordan thing is a complete waste of time. It's not going to accomplish much of anything and it's not going to get them the kind of press they're seeking.

 

Again, I have to go back to the Lady Gaga comparison. OJ is TNA's Gaga. And yes, a male version. But trust me, doing an opposite gender version of people often works fine. Lita as the female Hardy Boy, X-23 as the female Wolverine. (I know I'm not naming female to male examples here but male characters are still dominate in entertainment, however I do believe the process works both ways and I'm confident I could fine an example if I looked or thought harder.)

[Zeel1]

While a Christian myself, I really don't see why Dinero would offend people too much. Perhaps a little edgy, sure, but downright blasphemous? I don't think so.

 

Maybe if he took it a little further then he does, I wouldn't like it as much as I do. I mean, he doesn't mention God or Jesus, or carry around bibles. (Atleast, I haven't heard or seen him do so.) Honestly, the only things all that religious about him is his name, and the way he dresses. Sort of like how the only things that have been religious about Christopher Daniels for the last five or so years was his nickname and his theme song.

 

It looked like it could be bad when he first debuted as a heel, (always more dangerous for these kinda things..) and played up the "Corrupt Street Preacher" aspect more then he does currently, but right now, he's harmless.

 

But now, having said that, I don't really find anything that happens in wrestling as all that offensive, even if I'd have problems with it in real life. For example, when I was younger I got mad at my Dad quite a few times for making racist jokes, and yet in '06 I rooted for Cryme Tyme. Maybe if I saw an actual money-grubbing street preacher on the sidewalk, I'd take issue with him, I don't know.

[Trashbear]

No one has anymore ideas for the renaming of The Band? I figure we'd all have a good ol' laugh at their expense...

 

I would suggest...The Grey Wolves, The Silver Fox, and my personal favorite...the Septuagenarians.

 

Look it up if you need to. It made me chuckle when I thought of it.

 

And just to throw in my two cents...when it comes to alternative sexualities, men and women are definitely held to different standards. The idea of a lipstick lesbian or a woman who "swings both ways" is quite accepted (at least to the extent that these orientations are accepted). However, alternative sexualities for men are judged much differently.

 

I'm certainly not above it. The thought of a good-looking woman enjoying the pleasures of both a man and a woman at the same time (on film, with many, many angles) is rather enticing. But a man, even one who is in fantastic shape like OJ, having sexual congress with another man...even when a beautiful woman is involved in some capacity...I'm decidedly less interested.

 

Granted, that's only me, but I feel pretty confident that there are others who share a similar viewpoint. And OJ is really the least of my personal concerns. I'm more upset about the fact that a once promising wrestling company that had some of the best young wrestlers, guys who were given somewhat of an opportunity to get over and put their talents on display, have been completely pushed aside in favor of guys like Matt Morgan, Rob Terry, and a bunch of 40, 50, and holy-effing-ess 60 year olds!

[fatallylost]

Since I passed up the Jordan discussion...

 

Wasn't this gimmick thrown around, in idea, a few years ago? (I believe after his Cabinet run with JBL)

 

Jordan is what he is, and we'll see what they do with it. I don't get it, yet, but, there hasn't been much to get.

 

Also, yeah, gay is gay in the eyes of anti-homosexual areas. It's slightly more "acceptable" if you will, for two women, but, that's just cause there are probably many more males who'd like to see two women together, than two men, and, even on the women's side, there are probably more for the girl-girl stuff.

[Moe Hunter]

Again, I have to go back to the Lady Gaga comparison. OJ is TNA's Gaga. And yes, a male version. But trust me, doing an opposite gender version of people often works fine. Lita as the female Hardy Boy, X-23 as the female Wolverine.

 

Lita = in WWF. Hardy Boyz = in WWF.

X-23 = In X-Men. Wolverine = In X-Men.

Orlando Jordan = In TNA. Lady Gaga = NOWHERE NEAR WRESTLING.

 

Your examples had direct interaction and co-existed with their counterparts. Until Lady Gaga shows up in TNA and has something, ANYTHING to do with OJ, neither example is anywhere near apt.

[LucianCarter]

It's slightly more "acceptable" if you will, for two women, but, that's just cause there are probably many more males who'd like to see two women together, than two men, and, even on the women's side, there are probably more for the girl-girl stuff.

 

You'd be surprised how many straight women enjoy all-male gay porn.

[The Celt]

Lita = in WWF. Hardy Boyz = in WWF.

X-23 = In X-Men. Wolverine = In X-Men.

Orlando Jordan = In TNA. Lady Gaga = NOWHERE NEAR WRESTLING.

 

Your examples had direct interaction and co-existed with their counterparts. Until Lady Gaga shows up in TNA and has something, ANYTHING to do with OJ, neither example is anywhere near apt.

 

Ok Lemme see...

 

Deadpool's humour was legitimately based on Ryan Reynolds and that got mad over.

Flair's "wooh" was taken/stolen from Jerry Lee Lewis

Hart's "Best there ever" was taken/stolen the 1982 film "The Natural"

John Morrison would very much like to Jim Morrison from The Doors

Rob Van Dam started out just trying to be, shock and horror, Jean Claude Van Damme.

 

Matt Hardy has said he'd love to do "The Punisher" as a gimmick but isn't allowed.

 

Razor Ramon WAS Tony Montana from the film "Scarface"

 

But I suppose the most obvious is Sting IS the Crow, from the film, The Crow. It's the exact same character, taken from one medium to another.

 

Look, if you get a character from whatever is hot at the moment, go for it. Make Money Brothers. Gaga is money, so OJ is going to cash in.

 

You'd be surprised how many straight women enjoy all-male gay porn.

 

Lol Yeah, I mean here's all these guys going "Screw that Homo stuff, unless it's some Hot Lesbian Action, that I'll watch" as if the other 55% of the population would have no interest on the opposite end.

[Trashbear]

You'd be surprised how many straight women enjoy all-male gay porn.

 

I would be friggin' flabbergasted!

 

There was a comedian whose name escapes me that said "Watching two women together is every man's fantasy. Seeing two men together has to be every woman's nightmare. You ever seen a man bent over from behind? Looks like an overgrown goat."

[Self]

Ok Lemme see...

 

Deadpool's humour was legitimately based on Ryan Reynolds and that got mad over.

 

Maybe the recent incarnations, but hasn't Deadpool been around and popular since the early Nineties? Before Reynolds was a blip on any radar. I've done no research on this. I do agree with your post as a whole though.

 

Big fan of Deadpool. There's a good wrestling character in there. In fact, in hindsight, my characterization of Edd Stone (runner up as Character of the Year on the dynasty boards) has a lot of Deadpool in him. High-tempo. Unpredictable. Not too bright. Lots of pop-culture references. He wasn't as violent as 'Pool, but who is these days?

[The Celt]

A quick check on wikipedia reveals:

 

Deadpool debut was in 1991, but didn't receive his own comic series until 1997. Reynolds broke out in the late 90s/early 2000s and I assume Deadpool's humour began taking on more and more of Reynolds style.

 

In fact I believe I got that idea of Deadpool/Reynolds from Reynolds himself saying it in a interview (He was very flattered to have Deadpool's humour based on him as a comic book fan).

 

And I agree, Deadpool is a great wrestling character. Good thing he'll be available in the 9000verse when it comes out for TEW10