Official MLB Discussion Thread

[Stennick]

<p>Yeah his first year was great then he would come back and get destroyed for a few games/innings and then get hurt again. I like Mark and really rooted for him and it just didn't work out. </p><p> </p><p>

The A's had Zito, Mulder, Hudson these guys were ALL Cy Young level guys and then right when they seemed to be at their peak they left Oakland and never really maintained that extended level of success. </p><p> </p><p>

Thats why I'm weary of signing Pitchers to long term big money deals. MOST pitchers seem to rise up, become dominant and then get hurt or fade away quickly. </p><p> </p><p>

Santana and Sabathia seemed to have mostly maintained their dominance but so many others have fallen by the wayside. Even Carp as dominant as he is you always fear that he's one pitch away from an extended stay on the DL.</p>

[Slagaholic]

<p>Santana just got rocked tonight 10 ER in 3.2 IP. Phillies put up a 9 spot in the 4th inning all with 2 outs. 8 of those runs were Santana's.</p><p> </p><p>

In the 4th inning 9 consecutive Phillies batters got on base with 2 outs, 8 of them scored.</p><p> </p><p>

It was glorious.</p>

[GatorBait19]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Stennick" data-cite="Stennick" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26724" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Yeah his first year was great then he would come back and get destroyed for a few games/innings and then get hurt again. I like Mark and really rooted for him and it just didn't work out. <p> </p><p> The A's had Zito, Mulder, Hudson these guys were ALL Cy Young level guys and then right when they seemed to be at their peak they left Oakland and never really maintained that extended level of success. </p><p> </p><p> Thats why I'm weary of signing Pitchers to long term big money deals. MOST pitchers seem to rise up, become dominant and then get hurt or fade away quickly. </p><p> </p><p> Santana and Sabathia seemed to have mostly maintained their dominance but so many others have fallen by the wayside. Even Carp as dominant as he is you always fear that he's one pitch away from an extended stay on the DL.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Also I can't remember (partly due to the fact im not an A's fan) but isn't their stadium a pitchers ball park?</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> I believe so, with the big foul terri. and far fences</p>

[BHK1978]

Santana just got rocked tonight 10 ER in 3.2 IP. Phillies put up a 9 spot in the 4th inning all with 2 outs. 8 of those runs were Santana's.

 

In the 4th inning 9 consecutive Phillies batters got on base with 2 outs, 8 of them scored.

 

It was glorious.

 

I was watching some of that game, it was horrible! I am not a Mets fan but that was just painful to watch. Now if it were to happen to the Red Sox, well that would have been a different story...

[GatorBait19]

so today i got into an arguement with someone about the best divison in baseball (same guy I argued with about NFL)

 

He said and I quote "NL East is the best"

 

and I just couldn't help to laugh, how can the AL East not be the best, they have 3 of the top 5 teams (along with Cards and Phil's) each starting pitcher (besides maybe Dice-K and Javier V.) you have to be like crap with

 

They have five, count'em five Gold Glovers just at the third base position (Longoria, Lowell, Beltre, A-Rod, and M. Tejada) plus names like Pedroia, Pena, Youk., Mike Cameron, J.D Drew

 

they have names like Veron Wells (who finally is connecting), Nick Markcauis, Carl Crawford, Derek Jeter

[SHaynes23]

I'd agree that the AL East is the best division in the league. As much as I hate them the Red Sox will wake up eventually and jump into things. The Blue Jays are hanging right around .500 too. It's a very good division from spots 1-4 with lots of superstar players.

 

The NL East would take it if the Mets didn't under perform each and every year recently. The Marlins are such an exciting young team, Hanley Ramirez is amazing. The Nationals will eventually drop off and it will be a two team race I believe, unless the Mets keep playing good ball and they get a fire under them when Beltran returns. Even if they stay in they'll probably choke come crunch time anyways. They don't quite measure up their counterparts in the AL yet though.

 

And back to Cardinals pitching, another great start for Jaime Garcia. He's 3-1 with an ERA of 1.12 after only giving up 1 to a potent Phillies lineup. I know he won't keep up at that pace all year, but it's really exciting to watch. He's battled Santana and Lincecum so far this year and is standing toe-to-toe with them. Cardinals are up to a 17-8 record now with a 5 game lead. Hopefully we can stay healthy and jump out to a huge lead in the division early.

[Slagaholic]

The AL East has been the best division in baseball for over a decade now.

[GatorBait19]

I'd agree that the AL East is the best division in the league. As much as I hate them the Red Sox will wake up eventually and jump into things. The Blue Jays are hanging right around .500 too. It's a very good division from spots 1-4 with lots of superstar players.

 

The NL East would take it if the Mets didn't under perform each and every year recently. The Marlins are such an exciting young team, Hanley Ramirez is amazing. The Nationals will eventually drop off and it will be a two team race I believe, unless the Mets keep playing good ball and they get a fire under them when Beltran returns. Even if they stay in they'll probably choke come crunch time anyways. They don't quite measure up their counterparts in the AL yet though.

 

And back to Cardinals pitching, another great start for Jaime Garcia. He's 3-1 with an ERA of 1.12 after only giving up 1 to a potent Phillies lineup. I know he won't keep up at that pace all year, but it's really exciting to watch. He's battled Santana and Lincecum so far this year and is standing toe-to-toe with them. Cardinals are up to a 17-8 record now with a 5 game lead. Hopefully we can stay healthy and jump out to a huge lead in the division early.

 

that all depends really if teams get the reports and how he reacts wants they start hitting him

[jbergey_2005]

No, YOU don't know them very well. Jeff Wilpon won't authorize an additional $30M a year in salary on one player. Maybe 3 off-seasons ago, but not now.

 

The Yankees have no where to put Pujols and they don't need him either.

 

The same team that is paying ARod 25+ million into his late 30's isnt going to pay the best player in baseball 30 million a year in his prime. Sure thing.

 

Saying a team cant use Pujols is ignorant. How can a team not use the best player in baseball? When they wanted ARod they got him despite having Jeter and they worked it out.

[jbergey_2005]

The AL East has been the best division in baseball for over a decade now.

 

Thanks captain obvious.

[Slagaholic]

The same team that is paying ARod 25+ million into his late 30's isnt going to pay the best player in baseball 30 million a year in his prime. Sure thing.

 

Saying a team cant use Pujols is ignorant. How can a team not use the best player in baseball? When they wanted ARod they got him despite having Jeter and they worked it out.

Believe it or not the Yankees have a budget. They didn't go crazy last off-season because they just decided to.

 

They went crazy because some huge contracts came off the books and gave them the money to do so. Do you really think the Yankees sign CC, AJ, AND Tex with Jason Giambi ($23M), Bobby Abreu ($16M), and Carl Pavano ($11M) still on the payroll? NOOOOO!

[GatorBait19]

here is the good thing for the yanks

 

first, they have the highest payroll this year than they have ever had

 

second, they are going into a free agency year with the likes of Cliff Lee, Carl Crawford, Carlos Pena, Albert P. (if he doesn't resign), Lance Berkman, Paul Konerko, Victor Martinez, and Brandon Webb

 

Now for the Yanks I believe they will drop 1.2 million just from Melky Cabrera and Chad Gaudin's contracts (they paid I believe half of Melky's contract for the Braves just to get him out of there)

 

Jeter and Rivera will be resigned

 

Andy P is probably retiring this year so there is another 11.75 mil, and Javier V probably wont be brought back taking another 11.5 mil, Nick Johnson at 5.5 for next year probably wont have his mutal option picked up, Chan Ho Park at 1.2 mil, Randy Winn at 1.1 mil, and maybe another 2 mil cleared from other players not coming back the yanks are looking at maybe 30-35 million off the books.

 

If they have no problem spending 213 mill this year I doubt they will have a problem with it next year, so I see the Yanks going after

 

Albert, Crawford (it would fill two of their biggest weakness in DH and LF) along with Cliff Lee, and if they can't get Albert, Pena is a good fit as well as he can hit for power(which works in that stadium) and can play a great 1st base(former gold glover)

 

I would predict they could get all three, they could pitch to Crawford that his endorsments would go up, and could pitch two the other two that a Ring would be tied to this

 

But we will see how this all works out

[jbergey_2005]

Believe it or not the Yankees have a budget. They didn't go crazy last off-season because they just decided to.

 

They went crazy because some huge contracts came off the books and gave them the money to do so. Do you really think the Yankees sign CC, AJ, AND Tex with Jason Giambi ($23M), Bobby Abreu ($16M), and Carl Pavano ($11M) still on the payroll? NOOOOO!

 

Of course they have a budget. Any successful business has a budget. Having a budget doesnt mean they arent going make the changes needed to bring in the best player in baseball. Its really a silly thing to argue about because knowing the Yankees they would sign Pujols just to keep him from going to the Red Sox. We will have to wait and see but I am pretty much certain the Pujols is going to get around 7-8 years and 250 million.

[GatorBait19]

Of course they have a budget. Any successful business has a budget. Having a budget doesnt mean they arent going make the changes needed to bring in the best player in baseball. Its really a silly thing to argue about because knowing the Yankees they would sign Pujols just to keep him from going to the Red Sox. We will have to wait and see but I am pretty much certain the Pujols is going to get around 7-8 years and 250 million.

 

not only that, but Pujols would also bring in a lot of money to the Yanks

[Slagaholic]

The second Pujols is in pinstripes, I will concede that you are correct. Since that moment will never happen, I stick by my points.

[Slagaholic]

here is the good thing for the yanks

 

first, they have the highest payroll this year than they have ever had

 

second, they are going into a free agency year with the likes of Cliff Lee, Carl Crawford, Carlos Pena, Albert P. (if he doesn't resign), Lance Berkman, Paul Konerko, Victor Martinez, and Brandon Webb

 

Now for the Yanks I believe they will drop 1.2 million just from Melky Cabrera and Chad Gaudin's contracts (they paid I believe half of Melky's contract for the Braves just to get him out of there)

 

Jeter and Rivera will be resigned

 

Andy P is probably retiring this year so there is another 11.75 mil, and Javier V probably wont be brought back taking another 11.5 mil, Nick Johnson at 5.5 for next year probably wont have his mutal option picked up, Chan Ho Park at 1.2 mil, Randy Winn at 1.1 mil, and maybe another 2 mil cleared from other players not coming back the yanks are looking at maybe 30-35 million off the books.

 

If they have no problem spending 213 mill this year I doubt they will have a problem with it next year, so I see the Yanks going after

 

Albert, Crawford (it would fill two of their biggest weakness in DH and LF) along with Cliff Lee, and if they can't get Albert, Pena is a good fit as well as he can hit for power(which works in that stadium) and can play a great 1st base(former gold glover)

 

I would predict they could get all three, they could pitch to Crawford that his endorsments would go up, and could pitch two the other two that a Ring would be tied to this

 

But we will see how this all works out

 

So you think they lose 30 million and then add another 60? Pujols is going to get just below A-Rod money, Cliff Lee's agent wants the deal CC got, and Carl Crawford wants $10 million a year plus.

 

They Yankees don't always sign the top free-agents just because. They don't need any of those guys, they needed the players they acquired last off-season. Just because the Yankees are the Yankees is not a good enough excuse for them to throw bad contracts at multiple players because they can afford to do so. They've tried that before and it bit them in the ass. They will not sign all three of those players next off-season.

[GatorBait19]

So you think they lose 30 million and then add another 60? Pujols is going to get just below A-Rod money, Cliff Lee's agent wants the deal CC got, and Carl Crawford wants $10 million a year plus.

 

They Yankees don't always sign the top free-agents just because. They don't need any of those guys, they needed the players they acquired last off-season. Just because the Yankees are the Yankees is not a good enough excuse for them to throw bad contracts at multiple players because they can afford to do so. They've tried that before and it bit them in the ass. They will not sign all three of those players next off-season.

 

Cliff wont get C.C money he has never been healthy enough for it, look for him to get a Halladay deal, 3 to 4 years and 40 to 50 million.

 

and instead of get I should have put pursue for you, they will pursue the top four free agents, if C.C hits the market he will most likely go to the Yanks because he is a top of the order guy, with speed, 20 HR's (playing 81 games in that park I wouldn't be surprised if he touches 25), and defense guy

 

he would fit perfectly because he hits for avg, can steal to get into scoring position ahead of the likes of A-Rod, Tex, and Cano

 

Lee would fit because he would be their 2nd or 3rd pitcher behind CC and maybe AJ

 

And another power bat (Berkman, Pena, Paul K) would fit in as DH

 

Pena draws walks and has power (tied last year with Tex for AL lead in HR's and he played 21 less games then Tex) sure the avg isn't the best in the world but a club house leader, a hitters ball park (how many HR's do you think Pena would have had playing 81 games in that park) high walk guy with a .350 OBP he would fit well either in between Tex and Cano (where he'd get protection and see nice pitches) or in between Cano and Swisher at 6

 

and like I said, we have to wait and see what happens this is all predicting what will happen

 

And the Yanks are the Yanks, you can say they have a budget and they stick to it, but Hal isn't a dummy, is sees the overall goal.... money, and you can say no he wants a title, and you'd be right he does, but the biggest reason for the title is...... money, it brings more in. It justifies (to them atleast) to keep their tickets so high.

 

Will they add 60 mill to their payroll........ depends, how much money will it bring them back?

[GatorBait19]

So you think they lose 30 million and then add another 60? Pujols is going to get just below A-Rod money, Cliff Lee's agent wants the deal CC got, and Carl Crawford wants $10 million a year plus.

 

They Yankees don't always sign the top free-agents just because. They don't need any of those guys, they needed the players they acquired last off-season. Just because the Yankees are the Yankees is not a good enough excuse for them to throw bad contracts at multiple players because they can afford to do so. They've tried that before and it bit them in the ass. They will not sign all three of those players next off-season.

 

also, as much as I think it'd be fun to see Albert in Pinstripes, the Cards or the Mets are the only two teams I see him with, because you are right, the Yanks would rather add more players then just one and some scabs

[Slagaholic]

If Lee signs for a Halladay deal I am going to burn his house down.

[jbergey_2005]

So you think they lose 30 million and then add another 60? Pujols is going to get just below A-Rod money, Cliff Lee's agent wants the deal CC got, and Carl Crawford wants $10 million a year plus.

 

They Yankees don't always sign the top free-agents just because. They don't need any of those guys, they needed the players they acquired last off-season. Just because the Yankees are the Yankees is not a good enough excuse for them to throw bad contracts at multiple players because they can afford to do so. They've tried that before and it bit them in the ass. They will not sign all three of those players next off-season.

 

What do you mean "they dont need any of them guys?" They have a huge hole in left field. Since Vazquez has been sucking and doesnt seem like a Yankee guy they will need another starting pitcher next year. The Yankees are good but they arent the flawless team you make them out to be.

[GatorBait19]

If Lee signs for a Halladay deal I am going to burn his house down.

 

lmao why? is it cuz you think Lee is better than that or because he is worse than it?

[BHK1978]

This is not a shot at Red Sox fans, but I wonder if they are really this bad or will they turn it around? I mean hell with that starting pitching alone they should be a lot better. Granted it is only the start of the season and they still have somewhat of a chance to turn it around.

[GatorBait19]

This is not a shot at Red Sox fans, but I wonder if they are really this bad or will they turn it around? I mean hell with that starting pitching alone they should be a lot better. Granted it is only the start of the season and they still have somewhat of a chance to turn it around.

 

well I think their biggest thing is, Ellisbury is still hurt, Cameron is hurt and they are trying to get healthy

 

But I agree the starting pitching should at least be helping and it's not, they tried a new way this year (defense first) and so far it isn't working, Ortiz is old and in his last year of his contract, Victor hasn't lived up to expectations, Beltre is an error machine so far with another GG 3B on the bench, their bench is weak to me, and John P. looks hit-able

 

so we will have to wait an see what happens when they get healthy but it could be a long season for them

 

(remember it's been 2 years since Lackey has made 30 plus starts, Beckett has a history of injuries, and Clay hasn't played a full season but is looking good)

 

And it seems either A) Dice-K is losing his stuff (remember he was a work horse in Japan) B) Hitters are caughting on, or C) mixture of both)

 

heck it seems like even the most active hitters (guys who don't take many pitches) are taking pitches

 

 

but, IMHO they are an old beat up team with former proven players, who haven't proven much lately, besides Youk, Dustin, Ells, Clay, Beckett, Lester, Lackey, and Clay you are looking at a team that needs to be imploded and rebuilt

[BHK1978]

I wonder why Japanese Pitcher are usually so good when they come over here. However, after say two or three seasons they seem to go down hill. Is it because the hitters adjust to them?

 

And why does this not seem to happen to Japanese position player?

 

I just always found that to be odd.

[GatorBait19]

I wonder why Japanese Pitcher are usually so good when they come over here. However, after say two or three seasons they seem to go down hill. Is it because the hitters adjust to them?

 

And why does this not seem to happen to Japanese position player?

 

I just always found that to be odd.

 

it's the innings they pitch, I remember when Dice-K first came here I read an article how he had already pitched 1400 innings and had only one healthy season where he pitched 30 plus games

 

he's command also gets away from him at time and he walks a lot of hitters

 

the hitters just make adjustments to pitchers which is why he is getting rocked now

 

 

Also the pitch count over there is much different, over there 150 to 200 pitches a game is a common thing and is when most pitchers get pulled, he had 72 games in which he pitched all 9 innings, I read once he pitched 123 pitches in just 5 innings