TEW2020 Discussion Thread

[iruleall15]

The question I have after today's announcement is whether the "Wrestler X doesn't want to negotiate with you because he thinks your company is too small for him" will still be a thing in 2020.

Because I feel like this would be a big hindrance to making use of today's feature.

 

Not completely true. Look at pop in Teirs. Lets say its 1-5. you are a Tier 1 company so why would a free agent with lets say 70+ pop ever wanna work for you? But a Tier 3 guy would probably be willing. Its all about the pop of your company vs the pop of the worker you want.

[Jaysin]

Great addition today but my question is what will be determining a "star"? Popularity? What determines if a guy is a star in one region and a unknown guy in another?

 

I feel like we didnt get enough info to know regarding who/what makes someone a star/draw

 

Popularity in a specific region makes someone a star. The higher the number, the more it helps. Seems pretty self-explanatory to me.

[iruleall15]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jaysin" data-cite="Jaysin" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Popularity in a specific region makes someone a star. The higher the number, the more it helps. Seems pretty self-explanatory to me.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Ok but at what point and pop is someone a star for one company but not for the other?</p><p> </p><p> Say im a brand new company 0 pop. Obviously someone with 20+ pop will be a star to me. But what if im a 30-40 pop company in lets say Tri state and i loan someone in with 20 pop that wont mean anything now. So how does the term star evolve in terms of pop as a companies pop increases.</p>

[Jaysin]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="iruleall15" data-cite="iruleall15" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Ok but at what point and pop is someone a star for one company but not for the other?<p> </p><p> Say im a brand new company 0 pop. Obviously someone with 20+ pop will be a star to me. But what if im a 30-40 pop company in lets say Tri state and i loan someone in with 20 pop that wont mean anything now. So how does the term star evolve in terms of pop as a companies pop increases.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> You are over thinking this. A Star is anyone with pop at or above your promotion’s popularity.</p>

[DatIsraeliGuy]

<p>40 entries in, still no big changes to the AI...</p><p>

Real shame, I wanna buy the game but I doubt I will without a massive upgrade to the terrible AI</p>

[BrokenCycle]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="DatIsraeliGuy" data-cite="DatIsraeliGuy" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>40 entries in, still no big changes to the AI...<p> Real shame, I wanna buy the game but I doubt I will without a massive upgrade to the terrible AI</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Which simulation game has AI that gets mostly praised? </p><p> </p><p> Considering how nuanced the wrestling business is, the AI in 2016 is not over the top terrible. It's... fine. </p><p> </p><p> Also a lot of how the AI behaves is based upon the systems of the game, which I think there's been some improvements announced already.</p>

[Kingster]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="iruleall15" data-cite="iruleall15" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Not completely true. Look at pop in Teirs. Lets say its 1-5. you are a Tier 1 company so why would a free agent with lets say 70+ pop ever wanna work for you? But a Tier 3 guy would probably be willing. Its all about the pop of your company vs the pop of the worker you want.</div></blockquote><p> Yes.</p><p> </p><p> I'm just wondering whether that hard block that's currently in the game will be removed. Because a) I think for the right price you should at least have a chance of signing anyone, even as a small company and b) with this new game mechanic that was announced yesterday, it would make sense to have it removed.</p>

[DatIsraeliGuy]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BrokenCycle" data-cite="BrokenCycle" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Which simulation game has AI that gets mostly praised? <p> </p><p> Considering how nuanced the wrestling business is, the AI in 2016 is not over the top terrible. It's... fine. </p><p> </p><p> Also a lot of how the AI behaves is based upon the systems of the game, which I think there's been some improvements announced already.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Each one to his own, but I completely disagree, the AI is not fine at all.</p><p> It makes so many terrible decisions that made me give up on saves I stopped counting.</p><p> It also becomes a breeze after a few years in a save, no challenge whatsoever, no logic when booking and even worse logic for storylines.</p>

[KeyserSoze]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="DatIsraeliGuy" data-cite="DatIsraeliGuy" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It also becomes a breeze after a few years in a save, no challenge whatsoever, no logic when booking and even worse logic for storylines.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Not like the real bookers anyway (WCW cough cough, WWE cough cough)</p>

[landxx]

So its means that you can take like 50y wresler who are declining or have not best skills left but are popular and it would give use bigger attedance and more use to these wreslers to have it

[TeemuFoundation]

I agree with KeyeSoze; wrestling booking has been illogical and incoherent throughout history. Wrestling is a pretty dumb form of entertainment to begin with.

[landxx]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TeemuFoundation" data-cite="TeemuFoundation" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I agree with KeyeSoze; wrestling booking has been illogical and incoherent throughout history. Wrestling is a pretty dumb form of entertainment to begin with.</div></blockquote> But in 2016 you have like dumbest storylines who would never ever be these dumb in real life not even Vince or Russo can go that bad.

[Teh_Showtime]

<p>Jinder Mahal had a 6 month world title reign in real life, Bob Sapp won the IWGP belt</p><p> </p><p>

I’ve never seen the AI in TEW do anything as offensive as those two things, and the game can’t even listen to fan reaction.</p>

[snakesonaplane]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Teh_Showtime" data-cite="Teh_Showtime" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Jinder Mahal had a 6 month world title reign in real life, Bob Sapp won the IWGP belt<p> </p><p> I’ve never seen the AI in TEW do anything as offensive as those two things, and the game can’t even listen to fan reaction.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Don't forget, Tadao Yasuda winning the IWGP belt, or Yoshinari Ogawa (an average jr. at best), beating young ace Jun Akiyama for the GHC and turning his first run as ace into a joke, it goes on really. The truth is stranger than fiction many times!</p>

[Winter8905]

The AI is one of the main things that I hope gets improved. The AI is not very good at all, the longer your save the worse it gets.

[Teh_Showtime]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="snakesonaplane" data-cite="snakesonaplane" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Don't forget, Tadao Yasuda winning the IWGP belt, or Yoshinari Ogawa (an average jr. at best), beating young ace Jun Akiyama for the GHC and turning his first run as ace into a joke, it goes on really. The truth is stranger than fiction many times!</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The only thing I feel the AI is for sure missing atm is the nuance in certain gimmicks. Win streaks (and especially pushing an unknown to the top very fast), reluctant babyfaces, etc.</p>

[Zero]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Winter8905" data-cite="Winter8905" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The AI is one of the main things that I hope gets improved. The AI is not very good at all, the longer your save the worse it gets.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I agree with building new stars. But if you boost a workers stats or popularity I've noticed the AI will build off of them.</p><p> </p><p> In my 87-01 game, NJPW is always turning over new talent. WCW was doing just okay with it and I often had to insert myself to make them interesting.</p><p> </p><p> ECW was great as well before it closed down.</p>

[joemurphy]

<p>The AI in 2016 is pretty bad, defending it by saying that dumb decisions have been made IRL is odd to me.</p><p> </p><p>

I had a save game run for over 10 years, in that time some of the weird decisions made by the AI running other companies, including belts not being defended for over 2 years despite having weekly shows, made no sense.</p>

[piccamo]

<p>I agree that the AI is lackluster in TEW. I also agree that real-world businesses make poor choices sometimes. We can look at any number of reasons why those real-world companies make those decisions - ego, pride, politics, experiments, attempts to break into other markets, pushing/depushing workers, attempts to change products, etc. But the real reason is imperfect access to information or imperfect analysis of information.</p><p> </p><p>

TEW doesn't have that drawback. We can tell exactly what each worker's in-ring skill is compared to their peers, exactly their ability to work a crowd via charisma and star quality, exactly how prone to injury they are, and exactly how popular they are in specific areas. One of the steps to fixing TEW's AI has to be a reduction in how visible a worker's stats are. We have something like that in the game in the form of the fog of war and showing stats as letters instead of numbers, but I think it would be more realistic to never show letters or numbers and only sticking with the descriptors. I do like how it separates out the stat categories to individual stats though - I would keep that.</p><p> </p><p>

Another change that I would make would be to split stats into "potential" and "actual". Potential would be the maximum possible for this worker - maybe you look at Jinder Mahal and think that he could potentially have Excellent Star Quality someday so you start to push him. As time progresses, you see that his actual Star Quality of Good isn't improving very fast so you cool off his push. The chances of a worker actually reaching their potential should be fairly low, but the higher their potential, the better the chances of them being better in a specific category (reaching Very Good instead of Excellent, for example). Additionally, some small percentage of workers would surpass their potential (reaching Excellent instead of only Good). You could also have things like locker room morale, drugs, pain killers, smoking, and alcohol affect a worker's potential. And to add another element, you could have some workers improve faster than others - so you could have workers who have Excellent Star Quality potential, but won't reach that until they're 30 years old while others reach it at 20.</p><p> </p><p>

Something similar could be concocted for popularity - I shouldn't be able to see that a worker is A* popularity across America, but seeing that a worker is "massively over" would make more sense. Looking at a worker and seeing a potential to be "massively over".</p><p> </p><p>

Once you have imperfect information, you can tackle the AI a bit more easily. You can have AI that favors actual stats, actual popularity, etc. (probably typical of larger promotions) while others favor potential (probably typical of development feds, cult promotions, or indies in general). You could also have a mix - some favor potential popularity with actual performance while others favor potential performance with actual popularity. You can join that with what already exists in-game - preferences for body types or worker types. And keep in mind that favoring a certain type doesn't necessarily mean never pursuing other types. If Vince McMahon sees a guy who he thinks could potentially be massively over globally, you can bet he'll take that guy on, regardless of his other preferences.</p><p> </p><p>

As for booking, you would have to develop booking preferences for AI as well, which would probably match hiring preferences. If a booker or owner prefers bigger workers, those should be the ones who get pushed normally.</p>

[SirMichaelJordan]

<p>The AI is most definitely lacking (its not on the level of top simulation games)...</p><p> </p><p>

but with that said, it's s been getting better every version of the game and with the game possibly being a year away I'm sure the AI will get upgrades considering that the game was rebuilt and most of the features we have been asking for are talked about early in the journal already. We literally have about 6+ months of journal left...</p><p> </p><p>

Let's not exaggerate both sides.</p>

[BrokenCycle]

<p>The AI isn't that bad for what it's simulating. Not saying it can't be improved drastically in some areas, but it's just okay.</p><p> </p><p>

There's a difference between coding "Hey, maybe you shouldn't trade Tom Brady for 2 sixth round picks" and "Make sure you give people win streaks, and book interview segments to push a pay per view, and put younger guys in the ring with older guys to increase their skills, and..." This game is made by an incredibly small team.</p>

[Bonafide_Bluffa]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BrokenCycle" data-cite="BrokenCycle" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The AI isn't that bad for what it's simulating. Not saying it can't be improved drastically in some areas, but it's just okay.<p> </p><p> There's a difference between coding "Hey, maybe you shouldn't trade Tom Brady for 2 sixth round picks" and "Make sure you give people win streaks, and book interview segments to push a pay per view, and put younger guys in the ring with older guys to increase their skills, and..." This game is made by an incredibly small team.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><p> i get where you're coming from, but i dont think it means tew should be exempt from criticism. i love tew 2016 but i think its important to acknowledge where the game can be improved for future releases. that being said, can't wait for the new game!</p>

[dpoolez]

I do feel like the AI should have rules that could be set.

 

It can be as simple As "Goldberg = Win every match", "Dolph Ziggler = Lose every match" to simulate winning streaks and losing streaks better.

 

Maybe the AI can auto-assign rules like winning streaks to high Menace or high SQ people to simulate people coming out of the gate with strong pushes.

 

But, I do feel like TEW 2016 does a far better job at building workers' pop up than in any game prior. It would be cool to be able to simulate those nuances where some wrestlers are buried or primarily just put others over, and some wrestlers are primed to the top with an undefeated streak.

[Donners]

This also has strong ties to the AI, who will never break the team up, will never use them with other partners, and will rarely use them outside of the tag team division.

 

I take it that only applies if they are in the same promotion? Will the AI always seek to sign them together?

[SirMichaelJordan]

Yea i hope that the AI will try to seek out the partner when signing one half of a unit especially permanent units.