TEW2020 Discussion Thread

[awesomenessofme1]

Would we be able to transfer Save games from TEW2016 to TEW2020?

 

Other people already answered your main question, but it is worth noting that since TEW 2020 will allow you to convert a save game into a database, you will be able to transfer saves from 2020 to 2023 or 2024 or whatever the next one is.

[shawn michaels]

Charisma and star quality should probably be one stat. You can't have "IT" if you're not charismatic. And that new skill should be apart from the rest of the promo skills. Maybe the whole other entertainment skills could be merged and Charisma would be its own thing. It's different to know how to do a promo and to be a charismatic person. Those two are not exclusive and even a guy who is great at spouting lines will not necessarily be charismatic.

[Hive]

I'm very conflicted that technical skills will be a one size fits all stat from now on... While I can understand the decision to combine chain and mat wrestling (and think it's welcome streamlining) I really think that submission skills should remain a seperate stat. A worker coming over from a MMA promotion may be predistened to become a submission specialist, but may never learn the intricacies of chain wrestling.

 

I agree with this, I don't quite know what to think of this change yet myself. To me, there's a big difference between chain wrestling and submissions...

 

Charisma and star quality should probably be one stat. You can't have "IT" if you're not charismatic.

 

This, so much this. I've been arguing for a long time that "star quality" should be scrapped completely, as "charisma" should pretty much be covering what SQ covers. But I know there are plenty of of people who disagree with that.

 

"Colour commentary" and "microphone" should definately still be separate skills, as others mention. There has simply been so many real life examples of guys being great at one but sucking at another.

[K-Nection]

I hate to always sound like a negative nancy but I have to disagree with combining all of the technical skills together. Combining them together pretty much states that all technical guys have the same match which is not the case at all.

 

An Eddie Guerrero Technical Masterclass looks radically different than a Kurt Angle Technical Masterclass. Eddie would be considered the chain wrestling transition guy who has very fluid movements and counters while Kurt would be the submission example and more mat oriented.

 

While it is true that either guy could perform the opposite role they would be considered more of a jack in that category rather than an ACE.

 

I wouldn't debate that mat wrestling could be phased out because that is literately the art of chain wrestling into holds and submissions on the ground. Its pretty much a combination of both skills.

 

I wouldn't mind Star Quality and Charsisma to be merged because there is not one example of someone having high star quality but not having charisma to go along with it.

[Dolfanar]

Charisma and star quality should probably be one stat. You can't have "IT" if you're not charismatic. And that new skill should be apart from the rest of the promo skills. Maybe the whole other entertainment skills could be merged and Charisma would be its own thing. It's different to know how to do a promo and to be a charismatic person. Those two are not exclusive and even a guy who is great at spouting lines will not necessarily be charismatic.

 

I tend to agree, but I think this would require rethinking more than just stats. Gimmicks for instance. I see Charisma, Intensity, Menace, Sex appeal as "aspects" or "styles" of star quality that help define what "roles" a worker can play. Andre the Giant would mske a poor damsel in distress while Elizabeth a poor enforcer. So I think we still need to distinguish between a menacing giant from a flamboyant playboy, etc... In some way, but not necessarily with stats. That's why I say there is a second trickier batch of attributes to combine that are a little less straightforward than combining technical or brawling skills.

 

As far as the submission vs mat skills debate... As per Adam the game already just took the higher value so we're not losing anything. It was pure window dressing. I see Chain wrestler vs submissionist as a question of style, like brawler vs strong style / puroresu. I mean there isnt a skill for Lucha, which is atleast as distinct a style as puro... If the game had a visual or even playbyplay description I could see an argument, but the game abstracts in-ring action so much I think it makes sense to abstract the skills.

[K-Nection]

As per Adam the game already just took the higher value so we're not losing anything.

 

Sounds like that is what he should've fixed instead. Under that logic we should be killing off all of the Brawling stats and Ariel stats as well. Instead of the game just "choosing the best number" it should be choosing all of the numbers and weight it best vs least. Give priority to the best stat and factor in how much the minor weigh it down. That way a player that Stacks 75 in Chain wrestling but leaves submission at a 0 wouldn't be tearing down the house every match because that would never be the case. A chain wrestler that transitions into a John Cena STF would look incredibly dumb. While a worker like Rey Mysterio who is a great chain wrestler but passable in the submission department wouldn't be hurt nearly as bad.

[John Lions]

I think Star Quality and Charisma should definitely be kept separate, and I think that it'll be less of an issue in the new game given that Star Quality's importance tapers off a bit. I DO think they should be pretty closely correlated (floors and ceilings regarding the other stat) but I don't think they are necessarily the same thing.

 

I like wrapping the Technical skills together, but I can see how Submissions and Technical can be two very different things much like Brawling and Hardcore or Aerial and Flashiness. If we keep Technical combined as one skill, would it make sense to have a "submission" type of wrestling style? Since, if all the stats are combined, there's no way to differentiate between a technician who uses it to supplement the rest of his moves, and one who uses it solely with the end goal of making the opponent tap out.

[LoganRodzen]

Sounds like that is what he should've fixed instead. Under that logic we should be killing off all of the Brawling stats and Ariel stats as well. Instead of the game just "choosing the best number" it should be choosing all of the numbers and weight it best vs least. Give priority to the best stat and factor in how much the minor weigh it down. That way a player that Stacks 75 in Chain wrestling but leaves submission at a 0 wouldn't be tearing down the house every match because that would never be the case. A chain wrestler that transitions into a John Cena STF would look incredibly dumb. While a worker like Rey Mysterio who is a great chain wrestler but passable in the submission department wouldn't be hurt nearly as bad.

 

I agree with this completely. Obviously there are real life examples but when you look at the CVerse, most of these guys are better in one area as opposed to all three skills being similar. A few instances where someone has high chain wrestling and mat wrestling, but submissions is 20 points lower. And others where they have high submissions and mat wrestling, but lower chain wrestling.

 

It just doesn't seem like it'll portray "technical" wrestlers differently, but I guess the game wasn't actually doing that in the first place anyway. I mean, an amateur wrestler could be really good at mat wrestling and decent at submissions, but his chain wrestling could be a lot lower. And some amateur wrestlers could just be a really strong mat wrestler without using any holds at all. It just doesn't seem like it'll portray these characters properly. Someone whose a ground and pound type of character decides to add in submissions but that doesn't mean he's a technical expert now.

[Mammoth]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe Adam has said that's how it's calculated now. I think people may be getting this idea from his reply to my question here but he was referring to how the data will be converted from TEW16 to TEW20. The new "Technical Wrestling" skill will be taken from either "Mat Wrestling", "Chain Wrestling" or "Submissions", depending on which is the highest statistic.

[Jaysin]

Submission and chain wrestling aren't the same skills.

 

No sir, I don't like it

[TeemuFoundation]

There’s no reason to overcomplicate things with several different variations of the same thing, technical wrestling. They may not be exactly the same thing, but I don’t see the added gameplay benefit of splitting the stat up into three when there’s never a need in the game to prioritize one over the other two.

 

It always takes at least a few seconds to adjust a stat when creating a worker. Two different stats is several seconds.

 

That’s several seconds per worker. Now imagine creating a database with thousands upon thousands of workers. We’re talking hours of pointless work now being removed from mod making.

[ElSheriffo]

I think with time I’ll get used to the three technical skills all being under one category and I think it would make it easier for new players but at the moment I’m not sure. Would have to see it in action.

 

I think Charisma and Star Quality should stay separate. I view Star Quality as how your average Joe or Jane perceives the wrestler by looking at them, or the airport test of how many people turn their heads to look at the talent as they walk through the terminal (Can’t remember which of Conrad Thompson’s Podcast mentions it). Charisma I see is how good they are are keeping your attention once they’ve got it. I’m mean look at The Great Khali. Great Star Quality as everyone in a room would look at him but once he starts talking or working people quickly lose interest so low Charisma. Just my two cents, not looking for an argument.

[WCGreyghost]

I thought we could already search by skill level? Pretty sure I've run searches through whatever database I'm using, looking for, say...any worker with a skill of 70 or better in brawling...or mic skills...or whatever I needed at the time.

[Jaysin]

Charisma and star quality should probably be one stat. You can't have "IT" if you're not charismatic. And that new skill should be apart from the rest of the promo skills. Maybe the whole other entertainment skills could be merged and Charisma would be its own thing. It's different to know how to do a promo and to be a charismatic person. Those two are not exclusive and even a guy who is great at spouting lines will not necessarily be charismatic.

 

Nathan Jones had the look of a star, but wasn't charismatic at all

 

Mike Sanders had charisma but no star quality.

 

Strongly disagree that Star quality and charisma are the same thing.

[TeemuFoundation]

Nathan Jones had the look of a star, but wasn't charismatic at all

 

Mike Sanders had charisma but no star quality.

 

Strongly disagree that Star quality and charisma are the same thing.

Strong disagree; ”star quality” is just a different way to say ”charisma”. Having ”it” is just a different way to say having charisma. Nathan Jones had a look, but he wasn’t charismatic. Menace and size are already covered in the game. And the reason Mike Sanders lacked star quality was indeed because he wasn’t quite charismatic enough, and he also lacked size in his era to stand out.

[LoganRodzen]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe Adam has said that's how it's calculated now. I think people may be getting this idea from his reply to my question here but he was referring to how the data will be converted from TEW16 to TEW20. The new "Technical Wrestling" skill will be taken from either "Mat Wrestling", "Chain Wrestling" or "Submissions", depending on which is the highest statistic.

 

From the Dev Journal entry today... The Mat Wrestling, Chain Wrestling and Submissions skills have now been consolidated into one, a skill called Technical Wrestling. This change makes things more intuitive for players and reduces the workload on database makers, whilst removing a needless over-complication given that the three original skills were always considered as one by the game anyway.

 

Logan Wolfsbaine in the CVerse has 72 chain wrestling, 78 mat work, and 38 in submissions. Therefore the game is going to consider him a 78 in technical wrestling... but how will it portray the fact that he isn't that great at submissions? That is my question and that's what I'm concerned about. Countless other examples of workers in the CVerse whose numbers for these three skills aren't all similar.

[Jaysin]

#55: Merchandise figures and cuts, stables and products, clearing the decks

 

Workers now have individual merchandise sales figures each month. This gives the user a more accurate view of what is happening, is more realistic, adds a new revenue stream, and adds extra strategic elements (for example, you may give a big merch seller leeway when it comes to bad behaviour or avoid turning them heel because of how much extra money he or she brings in).

 

This is an outdated mindset. Orton has always been one of WWE's top merch sellers despite being a heel most of his career.

 

The nWo were the biggest merch movers for WCW despite being heel

 

The Shield were big merch sellers despite being heels.

 

CM Punk while heel did great numbers.

 

Selling merch has more to do with how over someone is more than whether they're heels or faces.

[shawn michaels]

Nathan Jones had the look of a star, but wasn't charismatic at all

 

Mike Sanders had charisma but no star quality.

 

Strongly disagree that Star quality and charisma are the same thing.

 

Let's agree to disagree that the dude had the look of a star. For real, not being snarky at all, that would just be another whole debate. His looks did not equal charisma at all, that is correct, but his looks also did not mean star quality. I tend to see star quality much more associated with charisma than looks. There are already stats for looks. I'm not saying that in an ideal world we would not have this or that stat, but in the interest of simplifying the game, I don't mind with the technical stuff being merged (3 stats for technical abilities seems too much) and i wouldn't mind SQ and charisma either being merged or the system being changed in some way. Name me one person in the history of the world that has extremely low charisma (or full lack of it) and is seen as someone with huge star quality or gets extremely popular in any entertainment field.

 

I know it is subject to opinions and not everyone agrees with me, but having SQ and charisma skills seems redundant. Charisma is closely tied to the so called it factor. Having another stat to help define it is...well, redundant, as I said.

 

As I also said, streamlining some stats and merging them into one doesn't seem to take away from the game in the grand scheme of things. I know those who love numbers, stats and comparisons will not like it, I for myself can't say I mind having stats to compare, and all of that, but if the game was already treating them as one, having 3 to mod was just simply not needed. Now I know this will lead to debates regarding wrestlers who were great on the mat and on the chain wrestling part of thing, as opposed to submission specialists, but I think these types of situations might be able to replicate by giving someone a certain percentage of technical. Eddie Guerrero wasn't a submission master, but was great on the mat, thus he wouldn't have a 100 in the new category, for example. Angle was great at both in his prime. And so on. If move set could resolve the rest I could see it working.

 

But given they were basically just filling space as they were calculated, can't say I can complain. Maybe there is a better solution in between.

[TeemuFoundation]

This is an outdated mindset. Orton has always been one of WWE's top merch sellers despite being a heel most of his career.

 

The nWo were the biggest merch movers for WCW despite being heel

 

The Shield were big merch sellers despite being heels.

 

CM Punk while heel did great numbers.

 

Selling merch has more to do with how over someone is more than whether they're heels or faces.

CM Punk in 2012 didn’t want to turn heel due to losing out on merch money. He said so in that big podcast he did.

[Makhai]

Charisma and star quality should probably be one stat. You can't have "IT" if you're not charismatic. And that new skill should be apart from the rest of the promo skills. Maybe the whole other entertainment skills could be merged and Charisma would be its own thing. It's different to know how to do a promo and to be a charismatic person. Those two are not exclusive and even a guy who is great at spouting lines will not necessarily be charismatic.

 

This is horse poop. The Undertaker is a prime example. Until 98, that dude was a wet blanket of black hair, and a choke spot. But he was a STAR, the problem with "star quality" is gimmick, especially in sports entertainment feds and out-of-the-ring factors are usually what dictates this stat in IRL.

 

The "IT" factor of which you speak of is that you can connect with a crowd. This doesn't always mean that you're responsible directly for that. It can just be a cultural thing(Bruno) you don't have to have a natural charisma about you to have it. That's what makes it so hard to find. It's ethereal, the harder you chase it, the harder it is to find. The most successful, let it find them, usually.

 

In game terms, I like the way it is handled now, but I'd just rename it to something like natural ability, or acumen or w/e so it doesn't get spread to far. It's function is to give those guys who develop quicker than other guys, and get over faster than most, as a result, a little juice on everything they do so they stand out. I think it does this, it's just got a name that implies more.

[Makhai]

CM Punk in 2012 didn’t want to turn heel due to losing out on merch money. He said so in that big podcast he did.

 

I don't want to relitigate the summer of punk. But he'd already had a heel run, and it was fine. I think we all can see in hindsight, that in order for that storyline to continue, one man needed to turn on the other out of jealousy and vanity. And he's the guy in the dorky green wrestling gear who got eclipsed in overness and had the hottest heel in wrestling history over his left shoulder. If they did the right thing that September eve, than AEW never happens and WWE are on the tail end of a huge wrestling boom.

 

Instead, they did what they did.

[Bigpapa42]

Let's agree to disagree that the dude had the look of a star. For real, not being snarky at all, that would just be another whole debate. His looks did not equal charisma at all, that is correct, but his looks also did not mean star quality.

 

He ended up making movies. In roles where the character was meant to be visually impressive. Just saying....

[Self]

I definitely wanted to see the technical stats consolidated into two, but I'm not sure what to think of it going down to one. Ultimately, I trust that it's the correct move, but I have liked seeing the distinction between submission experts and chain wrestlers. For diary writing, or any game where I wanted to really craft my roster, it was neat. I always like having one submission demon on my shows. Do I just make it up now?

 

(Of course I do)

 

Charisma and Star Quality I do see at different beasts. Star Quality is one of those weird stats that is a cool mechanical feature (some folks are easier to get over than others, despite their 'skills') but it can be seen as either a really vague and abstract mystery element, or a combination of a bunch of other stats (charisma, body type, gimmick, etc.).

[John Lions]

I definitely wanted to see the technical stats consolidated into two, but I'm not sure what to think of it going down to one. Ultimately, I trust that it's the correct move, but I have liked seeing the distinction between submission experts and chain wrestlers. For diary writing, or any game where I wanted to really craft my roster, it was neat. I always like having one submission demon on my shows. Do I just make it up now?

 

(Of course I do)

 

Charisma and Star Quality I do see at different beasts. Star Quality is one of those weird stats that is a cool mechanical feature (some folks are easier to get over than others, despite their 'skills') but it can be seen as either a really vague and abstract mystery element, or a combination of a bunch of other stats (charisma, body type, gimmick, etc.).

 

To piggy back on the Star Quality vs Charisma discussion, I think Charisma has multiple aspects to it. To use an abstract example that most people don't really know much about, look at Survivor. On the reality TV show Survivor, the most compelling characters are the ones with *speaking* charisma, the ones who can narrate what's going on compellingly. This definitely falls outside of what Microphone/Acting skills are defined as, and it's what lumps Charisma in that "Entertainment" batch of skills. These guys usually aren't the most physically attractive, "star power" type of guys on the island, but they are definitely the most "charismatic".

 

There's also physical charisma, which kind of gets wrapped up in Star Quality/Menace/Sex Appeal in TEW terms. However, in TEW, when you get bonuses for Charisma in your matches, that implies that the Charisma stat in TEW terms is more than just that speaking charisma. I could see "physical charisma" and the physical stats like star quality/sex appeal/menace being the same thing, but the Charisma stat in-game is way more complex. Also, it all comes down to nitpicking definitions of words.

[HiPlus]

I think someone hit the nail on the head earlier when explaining it. Star Quality is a sort of intangible trait that lets someone connect or get over with the fans. It is essentially that "IT" trait and how much they have of it acts as a limit to their success.

 

Then Charisma, Sex Appeal, Menace, ect. Should be how they are most able to get over. You could be amazing in this skill and be your primary attribute, but you may just end up capped by that intangible aspect or IT value which is Star Quality. Those values don't necessarily need to be rolled into one.