TEW2020 Discussion Thread

[DarK_RaideR]

Super cool additions today. Makes the workers feel more human, adds a layer of interaction between you and the workers, and just makes it feel like you're dealing with an actual locker room.

Totally agree with this. It actually feels like an upgrade to the commentary mail we'd get in TEW16, from "this kid's gonna be a star and you should push him" to "this kid's gonna be a star, you should put me in a program with him so I can put him over". I'm also interested to see how that dynamic interacts with worker relationships, especially cliques.

 

Curious to see if actually pulling the trigger on the proactive ones also results in an improved performance or match rating boost, kinda like the way call-outs and feuds to in WMMA. Speaking of which, I'd love to see that mechanic imported to TEW with workers using social media to fan the flames of ongoing feuds or announced matches.

[Eidenhoek]

Thoughts:

 

• Don't like the Fog of War. Never played with it aside from like, twice. I get why people do, but I don't.
  
• Love numbers, hate letters. Also always played with the numbers. Do I understand why yes shutup.
  
• I have neeeeeeded to be able to go back to...search for above 50 brawling, or below 80 selling, or whatever. Hated that it was gone in 2016 even with FOW off and numbers on. Super annoying, so I'm happy about this.
  
• We can debate what mat wrestling is or charisma is or whatever. This is a game. Yes, we can say that it SHOULD be mat wrestling is 20% of the rating, aerial 50% or whatever, but this *is* a game, it *is* numbers. So if this guy's a submission-dude, it's in his bio. If she's a mattress...that's a female mat technician, right? Point is, I don't care. They are numbers. Angle and Guerrero are both 100 technicians? Fine. Different styles of tech, whatever. If Charisma gets combined, fine. I just want to understand the general idea of how stuff is rated, and I'll run with it.
  
• To the above: Yes, *generally-speaking*, more stats means more nuance. And yes, I prefer nuance, I guess, but this game isn't trying to be really, really specific (nor should it; I don't want height to have anything to do with anything, for example, even though it does in reality).
  

[EBEZA]

I don't want height to have anything to do with anything, for example, even though it does in reality).

 

Following this slight tangent, I'd like to say: I'd love for every C-verse wrestler to have a visible, canon, height and weight stat, plus maybe a description of what their finisher actually is (as opposed to just what it's called). This would make the game more immersive for me trying to picture the matches in my head, personally.

[Dolfanar]

[*]To the above: Yes, *generally-speaking*, more stats means more nuance. And yes, I prefer nuance, I guess, but this game isn't trying to be really, really specific (nor should it; I don't want height to have anything to do with anything, for example, even though it does in reality).

 

I think the new Traits/Attributes/Tags or whatever they are called are going to bring alot more nuance while being far easier to manage as a mod creator. A handful less 1-100 skills vs potentially over a hundred binary tags is a hell of a bargain.

 

On the worker promises :

If we don't follow through and take a worker up on his offer to put someone over, what sort of reactions should we expect?

[shawn michaels]

Worker promises is fine, but kind of random. I expected it as something to be triggered by us and negotiated. It's an improvement, granted, kind of wondering if there are consequences to either side.

[TeemuFoundation]

Worker promises is fine, but kind of random. I expected it as something to be triggered by us and negotiated. It's an improvement, granted, kind of wondering if there are consequences to either side.

The random nature of the proactive approach by a worker to put someone over is the best part. Spices things up. It can offer an incentive for you to steer away from the mundane, predictable way of booking. And it's realistic, too. It's a known thing to happen that bigger stars sometimes approach the booker to say they'd like to put over a smaller star. Not super common, but it's a thing.

[ChairToFace]

Following this slight tangent, I'd like to say: I'd love for every C-verse wrestler to have a visible, canon, height and weight stat, plus maybe a description of what their finisher actually is (as opposed to just what it's called). This would make the game more immersive for me trying to picture the matches in my head, personally.

 

If the New York Minute is the Fameasser, then what's the Proton Lock?

[steev42]

Regarding, in particular, the reactive promises.

 

If they would refuse (which if I read it correctly, they can), do we have the ability to offer them things in return to convince them to accept?

[DarK_RaideR]

plus maybe a description of what their finisher actually is (as opposed to just what it's called)

If the New York Minute is the Fameasser, then what's the Proton Lock?

As far as CVerse goes, you can always download the Wrestling Spirit demo and look up moves in the editor

[EBEZA]

As far as CVerse goes, you can always download the Wrestling Spirit demo and look up moves in the editor

 

True, as long as you want the moves that are included. I've looked up plenty on WreSpi that I haven't been able to find. Plus, "you can always just load up a different game for that answer" isn't really the same as "this information is included in the game you're actually interested in playing"

[nerodragomir1]

I just feel like I'm repeating myself over & over. BUT I LOVE EACH UPDATE! The idea of wrestlers approaching me about putting someone over or setting up matches they want. Is really cool!

[ALittleBitDangerous]

I'm sure that this has been asked/discussed - but could TEW 2020 possibly include the option to book the eliminations in a multi-man match when that rule is turned on? I've been wanting to book a full Royal Rumble for so long!

[TLCJR4LIFE]

Wasn't that how Search was working in TEW2016? But yea, I agree overall.

 

 

 

I really wish the feature list wasn't so transparently dominated by the opinions of like 4-5 oldtimers being in Adam's ear all the time.

 

The whole point of FOW was that you wouldn't sign the highest rated worker and just push them to the moon because you already knew how good they were, you had to feel out their strength and weaknesses over time and/or have them spend a few years on the indie circuit to find out if they were a breakout star or a dud. If you remove that, you're back to people signing the same 2-3 workers because we already know how good they are.

 

Except the CVerse has been the same for the last 15 years ago and not knowing who is good by now indicates a severe lack of of concentration at best.

 

Even moreso for RW mods where literally everyone knows who’s good beforehand because they are based on real or historical wrestlers.

 

It only has ever mattered for newgens who are mostly worthless anyway and aren’t even on by default.

[TLCJR4LIFE]

Clearly the FOW was more popular than Adam thought, by the overwhelming response here. With that said, I do sincerely hope letter grades do not go anywhere. Cause that would start to enter into deal breaking land for me. FOW is gone, sure, I can adapt and not lose sleep over it, even though it is technically regressing, let's be honest. Technical skills were just one all along? Alrighty then. To be honest it simplifies stuff much more over, for example, the exact opposite in WMMA5, I can live with that as well. But there is only so much one can take of things being removed, so I hope letter grades are still an option.

 

On a side note, I have no idea where the whole concept that FOW was not that popular came from. I remember it was included after much demand.

 

I know the live journal hasn't even started yet, but the whole "talk to the worker stuff" could hopefully include some leverage and negotiations with the worker. Heck, this would be much appreciated when signing a worker as well. (Promised title reigns were a good thing that got removed, for example.)

 

No that’s called a vocal minority.

 

Especially given pretty much any feature being removed will have people who complain for the sake of it no matter how minor. I mean people are literally complaining about two useless stats being removed that serves no purpose other than to create game world imbalances.

[LoganRodzen]

I mean people are literally complaining about two useless stats being removed that serves no purpose other than to create game world imbalances.

 

Not so much stats being removed or things being changed... more like the mechanics of the game are actually being revealed and people realize that certain aspects of the game truly mean nothing. Kinda like a kick in the balls, ya know?

[TLCJR4LIFE]

I don't have the game on here to check, but am I wrong in thinking that the 2016 system does take overness into account? I thought it was worked out by giving a number to your top main eventers that is worked out using both star quality and overness? Because I know I have had people with amazing stats and overness but not great star quality still be a strong force in a national battle. Because I know in my experience it wasn't as simple as pushing the top 5 star quality guys you had, because how easy it would be to get them over with their stats definitely played a big part too. I don't have massive experience with national battles but from my memory people saying 2016 was ALL about star quality are over simplifying it.

 

I think a 50/50 split is perfect and I'm happy with the change. But to play devils advocate I suppose you could tie this percentage into the pop/perf one. So for example a company like USPW is weighted heavily on star quality with show grades having less of an impact, whilst someone like PGHW is the other way round.

 

 

Basic math.

 

 

85ish represents a high level young prospect in TEW.

 

 

8.5 x 100 = 850

 

One of the games pre designated main eventers will have 94ish SQ.

 

9.4 x 91 = 855

 

 

Now granted TEW also features a feature called overnesss caps, which will rapidly drop a character in popularity each day he is beyond the limit the game thinks he should stay. 99.5 percent of the database has an overness cap below 100, meaning on average only SQ > 90 is viable in National battles given the pre existing talent in the game.

 

 

This problem becomes more pronounced as the game progresses, because new gens start as overness zero.

 

See the way the game generates overness caps is by looking at the characters starting overness and then going up. This causes a comical bias in overness caps for already existing main eventers, but because almost all new gens start at zero, their range is so much higher and more susceptible to lowrolling. Actually had a recent game of the best new gen I ever saw, he had 99 SQ after getting ripped but only B+ overness cap.

 

 

Let’s say it’s an 87

 

 

9.9 x 87 = 861

 

 

This means in the average game, he will be like a 4th or so best guy in a National Battle, which is valuable, especially for a new gen, but still largely inferior to the games pre-determined stars (Dead Pool, Golden, Hawkins, Champion, etc)

 

 

 

Basically TEW2016 plays you, you don’t play it.

 

 

Conversely, in 2013, the two best guys in my company were Ricky Storm and Jason Dempsey, with a Jason Dempsey having. A meager 39 star quality but over 80 charisma and 90s in performance.

 

I very much played 2013, the game didn’t require me to pre-determine my choices in running a wrestling simulation.

 

2016 is literally a math game not a booking simulator, but overwhelming prominence of mod play obscures this.

[TLCJR4LIFE]

Not so much stats being removed or things being changed... more like the mechanics of the game are actually being revealed and people realize that certain aspects of the game truly mean nothing. Kinda like a kick in the balls, ya know?

 

 

These are all very obvious though. The match engine in this game is as simply as you’d expect from a one man developer.

 

 

I figured out everything there is to know about TEW years ago and my first one was 2013.

 

I’m really just surprised most of these things aren’t common knowledge but I feel Ike a lot of people don’t read a lot of my posts.

 

 

Secondly, they aren’t exactly meaningless. Each stat has a huge effect on worker training, and especially with how wonky new gen stat distribution is, there is a lot of value in having guys who are great in a large number of stats, even if technically he only needs to be good in one.

 

 

Put it this way, a guy with 77 in every top row stat will basically improve your entire roster every time they wrestle him.

 

 

If you really play for efficiency, limited guys have diminishing returns beyond just normal grades at actually improving your roster and thus setting you up for better grades in the future, where well rounded guys, like say a lot of the Japanese guys can be used with anyone and particularly have value in tag teams if they lowroll on overness or have low SQ.

 

 

 

Anyway, specifically the issue with Tech/Sub/Mat as stated was that due to destiny caps being so random, you did have a lot of chances for a guy to have at least one dominant technical skill and he only needed one to be a grades machine.

 

I highly prefer it being removed particularly for the sake of having more stable stats overall.

 

 

 

 

 

Also if this bothers you, I hope you realize that an 80/0/0/0/0/0 Brawler performs exactly the same as an 80/79...etc, one.

[zrc1]

Not sure if it's been covered at all. Like I've added In Your House to a classic database but want it to occur every month not featuring a Big 5 PPV.

 

A tick box of when the PPV is to be held would be nice, and clicking the months you want it.

[nebradska]

No that’s called a vocal minority.

 

This is an especially ironic statement coming from the only poster defending the removal and who made 5 posts in a row.

 

Worker promises are an excellent and welcome edition. However I continue to agitate for the return of FoW.

[TLCJR4LIFE]

This is an especially ironic statement coming from the only poster defending the removal and who made 5 posts in a row.

 

Worker promises are an excellent and welcome edition. However I continue to agitate for the return of FoW.

 

 

One I did not make 5 posts in a row.

 

Two several people have expressed apathy or support for the removal.

 

 

And again, an overwhelming majority of TEW players are historical mod players.

 

If you really play with Fog of War in a game re-enacting the Attitude Era I don’t know what to say to you.

 

 

 

Or really even CVerse since the database has again, been exactly the same for years now. Even the debuting workers most people have already seen due to playing long TEW2016 games, their stats don’t really change with new editions.

 

 

Also even for say a random mod like Thunderverse where Fog might have some appeal, the young wrestlers who are obscured by fog don’t even matter. Since you should never push a worker based on his starting skills but his caps which is observable in the creating meeting screen anyway.

 

 

Lastly, to the guy who said that Fog prevents signing the best workers and pushing him, how exactly?

 

It doesn’t give you misleading or incorrect stats, even through Fog you can still see exactly how good a worker is, it’s jjst much less information.

 

If you see a worker who is “Weak” in most stats, you are still well aware he is probably not worth signing regardless of it’s represented numerically or not.

 

Conversely, workers who are excellent prospects will have descriptions matching that, it really makes little difference at all.

[shawn michaels]

These are all very obvious though. The match engine in this game is as simply as you’d expect from a one man developer.

 

 

I figured out everything there is to know about TEW years ago and my first one was 2013.

 

I’m really just surprised most of these things aren’t common knowledge but I feel Ike a lot of people don’t read a lot of my posts.

 

 

Secondly, they aren’t exactly meaningless. Each stat has a huge effect on worker training, and especially with how wonky new gen stat distribution is, there is a lot of value in having guys who are great in a large number of stats, even if technically he only needs to be good in one.

 

 

Put it this way, a guy with 77 in every top row stat will basically improve your entire roster every time they wrestle him.

 

 

If you really play for efficiency, limited guys have diminishing returns beyond just normal grades at actually improving your roster and thus setting you up for better grades in the future, where well rounded guys, like say a lot of the Japanese guys can be used with anyone and particularly have value in tag teams if they lowroll on overness or have low SQ.

 

 

 

Anyway, specifically the issue with Tech/Sub/Mat as stated was that due to destiny caps being so random, you did have a lot of chances for a guy to have at least one dominant technical skill and he only needed one to be a grades machine.

 

I highly prefer it being removed particularly for the sake of having more stable stats overall.

 

 

 

 

 

Also if this bothers you, I hope you realize that an 80/0/0/0/0/0 Brawler performs exactly the same as an 80/79...etc, one.

 

You have figured out EVERYTHING about TEW? Congrats on having access to the code or being Adam Ryland, but now let the grownups talk and stop saying such...things, to keep it PG. I wonder if you also feel that the people complaining about not knowing only one technical stat mattered are also a vocal minority. They obviously do not feel well about it. And at this point I don't think the whole FOW thing is the reasoning of a vocal minority. You know, given that even people who will not lose sleep over its removal, like me, are clearly noticing how people want it.

 

You have every right to support your opinion like everyone else, freedom of speech and all of that, but please, unless you actually coded the game, do not imply to know everything about the game, or more than anyone else. It removes all credibility from your statements.

[TLCJR4LIFE]

You have figured out EVERYTHING about TEW? Congrats on having access to the code or being Adam

Ryland, but now let the grownups talk and stop saying such...things, to keep it PG. I wonder if you also feel that the people complaining about not knowing only one technical stat mattered are also a vocal minority. They obviously do not feel well about it. And at this point I don't think the whole FOW thing is the reasoning of a vocal minority. You know, given that even people who will not lose sleep over its removal, like me, are clearly noticing how people want it.

 

You have every right to support your opinion like everyone else, freedom of speech and all of that, but please, unless you actually coded the game, do not imply to know everything about the game, or more than anyone else. It removes all credibility from your statements.

 

It’s not too difficult.

 

The game isn’t complicated and most things are visually represented totne player. Every now and then I come across a very minor discovery buy I haven’t learned anything particularly interesting about TEWs engine in a long while.

 

And no I wouldn’t say that the people who didn’t know about how stats work is the minority. It’s obvious most people don’t pay attention.

[RingRider]

Wanted to step up as a mod and chime in here as this is getting a little heated. There's definitely room for both opinions and Adam has undoubtedly heard them both so further debating this is pointless. But if you do decide to carry on, cut out the snark all around or take it to PM.

[TeemuFoundation]

Heh, another day at GDS, another huge flamewar. Over features of a text-based wrestling simulator.

 

I don't want to come off as antagonistic, but my two (additional) cents regarding the technical stat gate. So, let's say a worker has 80 in chain wrestling, and 40 in submissions. Okay, so the criticism is that only his 80 in chain wrestling comes into play when determening how good his matches are. But, uhh, how else should the game work, exactly? If the worker is bad at a certain area, why would he ever go there in a match? Sounds like that match has a pretty poor road agent! It only makes sense that the wrestler sticks to what he's good at.

 

Also, let's say we're given a finer degree of control regarding the matches. Hurray, we can now choose what skills the wrestler uses in a match. We're booking him in this awesome technical masterclass against another skilled individual, it's gonna be so awesome. 20 minutes of back and forth action over the GDS Unified Universal World Heavyweight Championship of the Galaxy.

 

And you get to book the worker with 80 in chain wrestling and 40 in submissions to use... CHAIN WRESTLING! Because it's the only logical choice. Why would you do any different? The game just does the work for you. It's a pointless click removed, streamlining the process, making it so it's actually possible to still play the game without it taking as long as a real life WWE PPV just to get through one show.

 

No, I do not want more clicks and overcomplication introduces to the booking.

 

K. I. S. S. = Keep it simple, stupid.

 

(Not calling anyone here stupid, it's just a saying.) (Also, I was writing my post while RingRider posted, so I didn't see it. Feel free to remove if deemed necessary.)

[TLCJR4LIFE]

I certainly was not flaming anyone.

 

I am quite unperturbed.

 

And yes, this not only has applied to technical but all top row stats.

 

Only the biggest one matters, the rest have other use, mostly training and also previously for match types although this has been removed, so now we’ll rounded stats are slightly less useful than before(unsure of how this will play into the new aims system, this needs testing)

 

 

It could just end up that guys working say a High Spots aim get really good grades if they have good aerial and so on. Which makes stat diversity a little more worth it.