TEW2020 Discussion Thread

[Zero]

I say keep it in. Let us turn it on or off and let us have control over volume like you do with injuries. Because personally, I would crank it up. I want my game world to get weird.

 

I'm not looking to do a real simulation of life, I lived that life. I know that life. I want my game world to be CHAOTIC WITH DEATH and INJURIES and now this new APP.

 

Adam keep it.

 

 

Edit: Also if people don't like a change like that, edit it back. Not a big deal.

[Makhai]

For those who are saying the sexuality feature was just a switch that would happen, yes. The game is a bit of data and technically it's a switch.

 

I'm not sure you can simulate sexuality properly, especially the closeted aspects. I mean, can anyone simulate properly a closeted homosexual man in a machismo world of a 1980s south texas locker room. Let's be honest, even until recently homosexuality wasn't accepted in wrestling. At least from the fans perspective. So any historical simming of a man out of the closet is going to have some effects. Don't believe me? Look at Goldust who isn't a homosexual playing someone. I remember being told in 1995 by a family friend that we boo him because he was a fag.

 

I am watching through some early seasons of Survivor with my wife, and it's amazing that terms like "FNF/fat naked fag" to describe Rich or queer are used in a negative sense. Even in the 3rd season, 2002, there's people thinking they voted for someone because they were gay. Billy & Chuck was a comedy angle during this time (2005? I forget).

 

You have rumors of JBL raping people as a rib. Stuff like that going on in the locker rooms.

 

Also for those saying it has never had impact: look up rumors of Brawler/Patterson, look up how Chris Kanyon wanted to be the first openly gay wrestler and was forced to come out as Boy George and get his ass kicked. How much did he suffered with bipolar disorder because of his closeted nature. Ernie Roth (the Grand Wizard) stayed closeted his entire lifetime. Even Orlando Jordan can be categorized there. Homosexuality hasn't been positive in wrestling (on and off screen) despite men like Pat Patterson in the background. Those are some examples off the top of my head but don't tell me homosexuality doesn't matter in wrestling when it does.

 

This is 100% accurate, but it's encouraging that each of the men who took on the "Exotic" gimmick did progressively worse as heels. Gorgeous George may be the very best heel of all-time, then Adrian Street was very successful in short runs, but would ultimately have his best runs as a babyface in the deep south. Then Golddust, probably the most extreme case of the gimmick taken to laughable drug-fueled extremes only achieved mid-card status... which was exactly the overness Dustin Rhodes would have achieved with any other well-packaged gimmick.

 

Now, you run the "exotic" gimmick, Orlando Jordan, and Sonny Kiss have/will, it makes you a babyface. Wrestling has a dark history, on race and stereotyping, but it's actually pretty far ahead in the sports landscape. The NFL has had 1 openly gay player who was treated very poorly. And the NBA NHL and MLB have had none. The NBA has had 2 or 3 come out after they retired, Boxing is horribly bigotted against gays still(See: how promoters treated the best women's boxer of all-time Ann Wolfe). So It's a checkered landscape wrestling has actually come out on the right-side of for the most part.

 

I mean, wrestling is a sea of stereotypes and lowest common denominator appeal which will always be problematic for inclusiveness and cultural resonance but... even that is changing.

[Derek B]

**puts on forum mod hat***

 

I'm just going to go through a the responses to the sexuality feature and send a few PMs to people. Nothing serious, given that some of what was talked about was a result of the way the announcement was worded and since that has been cleared up, the feature seems to have a positive response.

 

But mostly I want to make sure we're all up to speed on GDS forum policy and that people can see that when things get a bit more heated that things are being done. A couple of posts have been deleted (by other mods) but for the most part things will be left up as is to show what level of discussion is acceptable by GDS standards.

[Hive]

So Darren Young, Pat Patterson, Kendo Nagasaki, none of them ever came out of the closet?

 

The announcement didn't describe the feature as coming out of the closet, but as changing sexuality. Biiiig difference. And me, being sort of like Drax, read it literally and did not look for interpretations.

 

Anyway, it's done with, Ryland removed the feature. No reason to beating around a dead horse.

[SirMichaelJordan]

And they said people who were inquiring about push levels were overreacting

[Hive]

<p>I'm soooo ready for stable logos after finding this gem. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/cool.png.f00d2562b2c1d873a09323753efdb041.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

<img alt="dodshirt_2263.jpg" data-src="https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/dodshirt_2263.jpg" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Seraphina]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>People complained so much over something so insignificant, lmao.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><p> In any age where we have people claiming that it's possible to change your sexuality through "therapy", which leads to depression and suicide among young, gay people who are being taught that they're broken and need fixing, this is not insignificant. Because it is not possible to just "turn straight" like that. And sexual preference does not appear to be something that changes in this way.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> This was a misfire. And while I don't think that there was anything malicious intended by it, and magically switching sexuality like the "gay conversion therapy" idea implies isn't what it's intended to represent, I'm willing to accept that this was probably an attempt to be <em>more</em> inclusive (e.g. simulating a person who has identified as straight their whole life realizing that they're actually gay), but it's still a misfire. And I'm glad it's being removed.</p>

[Bonafide_Bluffa]

anyone wanna help me find the dragon balls and wish this game is released tomorrow

[Kiheiji]

Regarding the new push system, will we have to figure out for ourselves where to put our workers on the card, or will it the game be able to tell us the best use for each of them? The whole thing got me thinking of WMMA's way of telling which are the top fighters (since they can't use main eventer, midcarder, etc.), so using that system someone like Finn Balor would be "possibly main eventing" while Roman Reigns would be "main eventing our biggest shows".

[ChairToFace]

He probably should've just announced it differently. Basically, let's say a person in real life is thought to be straight, then comes out as gay. So, in the Cornellverse, somebody who is listed a heterosexual would come out of the closet during a save and it would then list them as homosexual. As long as they aren't married/engaged to anyone inside or outside the industry, they can come out of the closet, and their sexuality would then be changed.

[WYSmooth]

<p>Ongoing Contracts</p><p> </p><p>

The new contract system made me think of the variety of ways contracts are handled in the business. If this isn't incorporated (which it doesn't sound like it is by the description), would there be a way to having 'ongoing' written contracts with a yearly raise (10%, 15%, 20%, etc)?</p><p> </p><p>

It doesn't sound like merchandise percentages are possible to work in, but a rollover type raise would simulate how some companies have structured deals. I know talent can opt out if they want to re-negotiate in these type of contracts.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>

Also, with the permanent tag team listing, does this mean the AI will also attempt to hire tag teams who are listed as 'unit' or 'permanent' together? Or is that not likely due to tag team contracts not working properly?</p>

[shawn michaels]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="WYSmooth" data-cite="WYSmooth" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The new contract system made me think of the variety of ways contracts are handled in the business. If this isn't incorporated (which it doesn't sound like it is by the description), would there be a way to having 'ongoing' written contracts with a yearly raise (10%, 15%, 20%, etc)?<p> </p><p> It doesn't sound like merchandise percentages are possible to work in, but a rollover type raise would simulate how some companies have structured deals. I know talent can opt out if they want to re-negotiate in these type of contracts.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Also, with the permanent tag team listing, does this mean the AI will also attempt to hire tag teams who are listed as 'unit' or 'permanent' together? Or is that not likely due to tag team contracts not working properly?</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'm very curious to see how certain aspects of contracts are handled. If the current raise system isn't returning (and it was unrealistic) at least a worker should in specific circumstances be able to at least ask for a new contract and we could choose to renegotiate and raise him if we so decided to. It wouldn't be the first time, or even close to it, that a company renegotiates mid-deal to accommodate someone they like, or want to keep happy/or in their roster. It could not be as frequent as before, but at least once in a contract for a worker, and should not apply to all workers.</p>

[WYSmooth]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="shawn michaels" data-cite="shawn michaels" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'm very curious to see how certain aspects of contracts are handled. If the current raise system isn't returning (and it was unrealistic) at least a worker should in specific circumstances be able to at least ask for a new contract and we could choose to renegotiate and raise him if we so decided to. It wouldn't be the first time, or even close to it, that a company renegotiates mid-deal to accommodate someone they like, or want to keep happy/or in their roster. It could not be as frequent as before, but at least once in a contract for a worker, and should not apply to all workers.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Agreed, the lock on only negotiating contracts until the last month is far from realistic. The system I laid out is close to how some companies operate their written deals. It would be nice to be able to open negotiations up earlier and have workers request (or decide to test the waters are leave in advance).</p><p> </p><p> I'd also like to be able to discuss creative with them in advance, it can keep someone happy short term, or it could cause them to decide to request their release. With the new (and far more realistic) push system, this makes sense.</p>

[tyrone]

<p>Logo's and Picture sizes</p><p> </p><p>

Sorry if this has been asked/answered/explained already...</p><p> </p><p>

Will the picture and logo sizes in TEW 2020 be the same as in TEW 2016? Will we be able to use the old picture files we've been using from mod creators?</p>

[BrokenCycle]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="tyrone" data-cite="tyrone" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Sorry if this has been asked/answered/explained already...<p> </p><p> Will the picture and logo sizes in TEW 2020 be the same as in TEW 2016? Will we be able to use the old picture files we've been using from mod creators?</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yes.</p>

[Kingster]

<p>Okay, now Adam has edited the journal post to make it look like it was crystal clear from the beginning that it was intended to be for workers "coming out" as being homosexual, when actually the journal entry originally read "workers can now change sexuality".</p><p>

By doing so, he makes all the people with legitimate concerns about the announced feature in its original wording look like homophobes in hindsight, just to make himself not look terrible in the whole discussion. </p><p>

Now mods have to delete posts from forum members that express disappointment that "Adam gave in to the homophobes that can't deal with reality" because they can't know what the journal entry originally read.</p><p>

Manipulating discussions like that is just abysmal.</p>

[Adam Ryland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Kingster" data-cite="Kingster" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Okay, now Adam has edited the journal post to make it look like it was crystal clear from the beginning that it was intended to be for workers "coming out" as being homosexual, when actually the journal entry originally read "workers can now change sexuality".<p> By doing so, he makes all the people with legitimate concerns about the announced feature in its original wording look like homophobes in hindsight, just to make himself not look terrible in the whole discussion. </p><p> Now mods have to delete posts from forum members that express disappointment that "Adam gave in to the homophobes that can't deal with reality" because they can't know what the journal entry originally read.</p><p> Manipulating discussions like that is just abysmal.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I've reworded it because new people were reading it and making the same misinterpretation as the original readers. Why keep the badly worded version up when it's creating unnecessary aggravation?!</p><p> </p><p> I've deleted the two posts that said "Adam gave in to the homophobes that can't deal with reality" because we've only just managed to calm everything down and get people on the same page - a post that effectively calls several users homophobes because they misunderstood a feature is only going to reignite the whole thing over again.</p><p> </p><p> EDIT - I've added in some text to make it clear what the situation was and how the original badly worded announcement caused confusion.</p>

[Blackman]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Kingster" data-cite="Kingster" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Manipulating discussions like that is just abysmal.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> He thinks about games from a technical perspective, and that is the technical wording as sexuality is basically "perceived sexuality". The problem is that nowadays everyone is so hyped about the SJW-topic that you basically have to invent new concepts for communicating information just because the existing ones have a toxic load attached to it. Another problem is modders having to have access to two fields (perceived and actual sexuality), and this might indeed take it too far, where questions will arise whether this is actually necessary.</p><p> </p><p> Too bad about the feature (as I love dynamic features like this), but a right decision to remove it. What did you expect? That he just deletes every discussion about it like it never happened? That is censorship and way worse than what happened now.</p><p> </p><p> I was already imagining Tommy Cornell announcing a gender change in 2010 and throwing the championship in the trash to be a valet for Giant Redwood after getting engaged with him (and contracting him), effectively dooming my TCW game. Now this delightfully random occurence can never happen in the game. I hope you guys are happy now... <img alt=":rolleyes:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/rolleyes.png.4b097f4fbbe99ce5bcd5efbc1b773ed6.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[BrokenCycle]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Adam Ryland" data-cite="Adam Ryland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I've reworded it because new people were reading it and making the same misinterpretation as the original readers. Why keep the badly worded version up when it's creating unnecessary aggravation?!<p> </p><p> I've deleted the two posts that said "Adam gave in to the homophobes that can't deal with reality" because we've only just managed to calm everything down and get people on the same page - a post that effectively calls several users homophobes because they misunderstood a feature is only going to reignite the whole thing over again.</p><p> </p><p> EDIT - I've added in some text to make it clear what the situation was and how the original badly worded announcement caused confusion.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Thank you for the transparency. I'm sorry this whole thing happened. </p><p> </p><p> I'm going to delete the posts I made myself because they don't reflect my feelings about this now.</p>

[RingRider]

Going to lock the thread for the time being and let Adam clean this mess up.

[Adam Ryland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="RingRider" data-cite="RingRider" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Going to lock the thread for the time being and let Adam clean this mess up.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Thanks for jumping in, RingRider.</p><p> </p><p> I've deleted the posts from the nasty argument that developed. This thread will be reopened in a short while when the new journal post goes live.</p><p> </p><p> We're now drawing a line under all discussion about the removed 'coming out' feature. Everyone has said their piece, emotions are high, and it's clear that it's such a hot-button topic that it's just going to keep spilling over again and again - and I don't think anybody wants that. Therefore, no more posts about it, please: they'll be removed if you do post (regardless of which 'side' you're on) as that seems to be the only way we're going to stop this from rumbling on forever.</p>

[KeyserSoze]

<p>I'm very excited with the changes in the AI. My biggest goal is that we can let the computer sim minor shows and we can micromanage the big gigs.</p><p> </p><p>

Also, a bit love for puro is always welcome... ^__^</p>

[TeemuFoundation]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>(NB: This is not necessarily the final list; I'd be surprised if at least one or two more options get added once we've got to the testing phase.)</div></blockquote><p> I think there's a typo. Probably should read: <em>"I'd not be surprised if..."</em> <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Adam Ryland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TeemuFoundation" data-cite="TeemuFoundation" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I think there's a typo. Probably should read: <em>"I'd not be surprised if..."</em> <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Thanks, I've corrected it now.</p>

[ArcheoOutOfNowhere]

<p>Just read the new entry and I have a question. </p><p> </p><p>

As I understand it now (and sorry if I didn't actually understand correctly), it would be feasible while creating a mod to tell the game that company X will book its shows in, say, a Modern Puro style, and so the AI will comply and make it unlikely to have certain types of match (so, typically, there wouldn't be a 20-men battle royal because that's not what you'd see in a Modern Puro style). </p><p>

My question is this: would we be able to add instructions to the AI ? The example I have in mind is (as usual) a French company who typically does all its shows the same way: a bunch of Single matches, one tag team match, an occasional intergender tag team match or women match thrown in the mix (which would all fit under the Basic Single and Tag booking style) but the Main Event to every of their shows is a battle royale with every person who participated in the show. So would we be able to say to the AI "Ok, for this company, you'll have to use this booking style, but every main event will be a battle royal" ? I don't think this type of nuance request a brand new booking style, since it's not that common, but it'd be interesting to be able to add small instructions, like "The Main Event will be a battle royal each time", or "There should be one intergender match each show", for instance. </p><p> </p><p>

(Again, sorry if it's already the case and I've missed the info !)</p>