Public Beta Reaction Thread

[Bonafide_Bluffa]

This actually makes it WORSE for modders. Where you could just select a gimmick, now you have to type it in select it's basis, then select traits etc but ensure they match up to any gimmick style they may or may not be able to use... this is an absolute nightmare. It is by far the worst thing in the game - nothing else comes close. I knew it would be a nightmare the minute I read the journal entry, and was proven right.

 

 

i can see how it will be nightmarish from a modding perspective, but from a gameplay perspective i much prefer the new system

[Makhai]

Yea, this is disappointing news to wake up to.

 

Templates must be very important and everything must work off them for it to take until 2021 to fix the problem. The fact that some said new ones can get added from suggestions make me wonder how hard it is to let the users add their own themselves though.

 

Still there's a lot of good additions and i want to support the work, i'm on the fence though because knowing i'm stuck w/ these templates is going to eat away at me every time i play. I was pretty happy with 16, so still have that version to play at least.

 

When he wrote the post ages ago everybody reacted very, very poorly. I don't even know how, from a design perspective, you could build the entire game around it. But it can be salvaged just by giving us the option to create them from scratch externally, or internally and add them via the editor.

[absolutelyridiculous]

An option to auto-generate the gimmick pros and cons would be great (leaning towards more pros for legendary, etc, but still with some amount of noise). I didn't know it was like that, that's awful to fill out. Good that it's there for like...Okada, or Undertaker, or MJF, but for anything that forces a mod maker to guess there should always be a random option?

 

Weirdly enough the only people I see getting killed in gimmick ratings with Awfuls are "Standard" gimmicks.

[Markw]

This actually makes it WORSE for modders. Where you could just select a gimmick, now you have to type it in select it's basis, then select traits etc but ensure they match up to any gimmick style they may or may not be able to use... this is an absolute nightmare. It is by far the worst thing in the game - nothing else comes close. I knew it would be a nightmare the minute I read the journal entry, and having spent quite a bit of time in the editor, my fears were confirmed.

 

 

But it does mean you don't have to set up gimmicks in the editor doesn't it? You can be very specific with gimmicks without having to create each one individually.

[absolutelyridiculous]

But it does mean you don't have to set up gimmicks in the editor doesn't it? You can be very specific with gimmicks without having to create each one individually.

 

 

It loads in the default pros and cons for his gimmick type which is Legitimate, but none of the extra stuff that's actually fun is loaded in without you setting it yourself in the contracts page. Bonuses to merchandise/SQ/charisma, wins/losses effecting momentum more or less, whatever else is in there.

[Fleisch]

But it does mean you don't have to set up gimmicks in the editor doesn't it? You can be very specific with gimmicks without having to create each one individually.

 

Say you have a database of 3000 workers, that's a total of 6000 gimmicks typed in manually 1 by 1 and then a basis selected for each 1 from the drop down. After you've done that, you then get to type the gimmick in manually again for every contract. You then have to scroll through traits and attributes to make sure these people are suited to using these "gimmicks" and ensuring traits are selected against gimmick styles they cannot use. You also have to select within the ocntracts any penalties or boosts these gimmicks give the worker.

 

I didn't even have 1000 gimmicks in total in TEW 2016 gimmick file.

 

From a game play point of view, this is a nice little addition as you can handcraft your own gimmicks for your promotion. From a modding position, this is exactly as horrendous as I thought it would be when I read the journal entry on it.

[LoganRodzen]

Is there a video or a post that explains the Cornellverse somewhere?

 

Like the back story. Or at least the main parts.

 

Id like to figure it out but its a lot of information. Think about trying to learn about the past 15 years of pro wrestling in the real world. Its quite daunting.

 

But knowing the bullet points would be nice. Main storyline that occurred. What happened outside the wrestling world. What companies bought others, improved or folded. Etc etc.

 

Would be really interesting to read up on or hear someone explain. Instead of going through hundreds of bios trying to figure it out one by one...

 

 

Not sure how nobody linked you to the actual CVerse website (that hasn't been updated in 10 years, but still): http://www.greydogsoftware.com/cornellverse/index.html

[Sons of Kohral]

The product issue seems to me, to stem from people liking to tweak their product until they get the grades that they want. Product talk on these boards always seemed to revolve around, "What product can get my small pop indy darling company B+ matches on a regular basis?"

[Eastwood]

I thought it would be terrible, but after playing the game and seeing how unique it makes a lot of promotions, I think it's an overall positive for the game.

Likewise. I was skeptical after reading about it in the dev journal but it's definitely won me over.

 

QUESTION: Will letter grade graphics be re-added?

ANSWER: No, that is not something that is being considered.

This doesn't rule out bigger number grade graphics coming back instead of tiny white text, right...? Right? 😐

[djthefunkchris]

The product issue seems to me, to stem from people liking to tweak their product until they get the grades that they want. Product talk on these boards always seemed to revolve around, "What product can get my small pop indy darling company B+ matches on a regular basis?"

 

It's not really that... Imagine that you have 300000000 channels to watch on tv. You've tried over 100 of them, normally going back to your favorite 6, but anytime you have the desire you can look at any other channel you want, and often you just channel surf around until something looks good to you, and you might watch it, it might be a channel you only watch once a year... but you have that option.

 

Now, I'm going to take away all those options and give you the most popular 50 or so (but in better quality). I promise you I'll be able to add dozens more down the road, in updates, when people ask for them.

 

But you want to change the channel tonight, nothing is on the other channels you want to watch for a change... but no, you have to request it, ask me to put it in your options, and after that you then may watch it... Ooops, wrong channel? You meant 52 not 53? No problem, ask for the right one next time.

 

 

This is what it's like for those of us that used the product settings... I used them absolutely every time I opened the game.

[Irishwhiskey119]

The product issue seems to me, to stem from people liking to tweak their product until they get the grades that they want. Product talk on these boards always seemed to revolve around, "What product can get my small pop indy darling company B+ matches on a regular basis?"

 

No, that's not why.

 

Has nothing to do with gaming the system and everything to do with the freedom of unique experiences. Some people create their own worlds / mods and the ability to apply different ideas for competing companies or my own is appealing. Plus products would organically evolve and incrementally for each appeal type and not just stuck on two options like it is now.

[tryker2710]

Okay, I'm going to drop a bomb here, and argue a point that has been rolling around in my brain for a couple of days now.

 

I think the old product system was boring. I think an awful lot of people just used a preset product and maybe made one or two tweaks. And you may say "Gotcha! They can't make those tweaks in 2020!" Well you're right, they can't fiddle with drop down menus. But 90% of the time people would just tweak a "respect for wrestling" present product into something that now resembles the Modern Throwback or Golden Age products we have now.

 

The old product system has been around for like a decade now, and we solved it. There was pretty much an objectively best product base that you then made one or two tweak to if you wanted.

 

Now, I've been very outspoken about the fact I don't like some of the more "you're playing the sandbox wrong" features that have been added in this version. But at the same time I think the new system just gives a new tool to use, while expanding our control as players over things like workers and shows and contracts.

 

I feel like it's worth more to have a nuanced, and balanced system of products and then greater control over the day-to-day stuff in my company rather than having a mountain of options for what was a very "set it and forget it" feature in the last couple of TEWs.

[djthefunkchris]

Where does all this "gaming the system" talk come from. I haven't seen anyone doing this, but I keep seeing posts to include a segment in the handbook, saying this is like a real popular thing. I admit haven't been super active until beta launch, but it sounds like this has been going on for the last four years the way it keeps coming up. Has this really become such a huge issue that we needed to take so many steps backwards to squash it?

 

Don't get me wrong, there are some things I'm like "WOW, I never thought that could happen!" like workers offering to put others over, so there are steps forward too... just feels like two forward/five back.

[Bull]

I wonder if anyone would be willing post some of their custom products from 2016? Just to get an idea of what's missing from 2020. I imagine with as many people who want this feature back that they had a number of products that they put together in 2016 that they feel can't be properly replicated in 2020. . Could give a better idea of exactly why it's an issue.

[Irishwhiskey119]

Okay, I'm going to drop a bomb here, and argue a point that has been rolling around in my brain for a couple of days now.

 

I think the old product system was boring. I think an awful lot of people just used a preset product and maybe made one or two tweaks. And you may say "Gotcha! They can't make those tweaks in 2020!" Well you're right, they can't fiddle with drop down menus. But 90% of the time people would just tweak a "respect for wrestling" present product into something that now resembles the Modern Throwback or Golden Age products we have now.

 

The old product system has been around for like a decade now, and we solved it. There was pretty much an objectively best product base that you then made one or two tweak to if you wanted.

 

Now, I've been very outspoken about the fact I don't like some of the more "you're playing the sandbox wrong" features that have been added in this version. But at the same time I think the new system just gives a new tool to use, while expanding our control as players over things like workers and shows and contracts.

 

I feel like it's worth more to have a nuanced, and balanced system of products and then greater control over the day-to-day stuff in my company rather than having a mountain of options for what was a very "set it and forget it" feature in the last couple of TEWs.

 

Disagree with all of that. More freedom is far superior.

 

But still this is the decision that was made and we move on. Hopefully there's enough added and improved to make up for it. At the least the people that do like to play with other people's products don't have to wait for a long fix or anything so i don't have to feel bad about being one of the users responsible for a delay. ha (I do feel bad for those impatiently excited to get into the new game)

[awesomenessofme1]

I don't have any problem with the product system. I usually customized my product somewhat, but the increased depth available (and still basically anything I'd ever want to run being represented) more than makes up for the loss of customization. But in agreement with some other people's posts, I really don't understand how products can be easily edited or added on Adam's end, but impossible to change on the user end without massive changes.

[Sons of Kohral]

Where does all this "gaming the system" talk come from. I haven't seen anyone doing this, but I keep seeing posts to include a segment in the handbook, saying this is like a real popular thing. I admit haven't been super active until beta launch, but it sounds like this has been going on for the last four years the way it keeps coming up. Has this really become such a huge issue that we needed to take so many steps backwards to squash it?

 

15 years on this forum and that's the only time I've ever heard people talking about it. I remember it culminated in Remi's indy workrate product which absolutely could steamroll you to high grades.

 

I've played around a lot with the product system in prior games, but the only time I found myself really tweaking levels was when I was trying to tweak it to give me a better grade or change an effect (vocal vs non vocal, rating based vs pop based).

 

I understand why the min/maxers are upset, but let's at least be honest that that's what it's about.

 

I wonder if anyone would be willing post some of their custom products from 2016? Just to get an idea of what's missing from 2020. I imagine with as many people who want this feature back that they had a number of products that they put together in 2016 that they feel can't be properly replicated in 2020. . Could give a better idea of exactly why it's an issue.

 

I agree.

[tormyb]

I wonder if anyone would be willing post some of their custom products from 2016? Just to get an idea of what's missing from 2020. I imagine with as many people who want this feature back that they had a number of products that they put together in 2016 that they feel can't be properly replicated in 2020. . Could give a better idea of exactly why it's an issue.

 

I would be really interested in this too.

[Makhai]

Okay, I'm going to drop a bomb here, and argue a point that has been rolling around in my brain for a couple of days now.

 

I think the old product system was boring. I think an awful lot of people just used a preset product and maybe made one or two tweaks. And you may say "Gotcha! They can't make those tweaks in 2020!" Well you're right, they can't fiddle with drop down menus. But 90% of the time people would just tweak a "respect for wrestling" present product into something that now resembles the Modern Throwback or Golden Age products we have now.

 

The old product system has been around for like a decade now, and we solved it. There was pretty much an objectively best product base that you then made one or two tweak to if you wanted.

 

Now, I've been very outspoken about the fact I don't like some of the more "you're playing the sandbox wrong" features that have been added in this version. But at the same time I think the new system just gives a new tool to use, while expanding our control as players over things like workers and shows and contracts.

 

I feel like it's worth more to have a nuanced, and balanced system of products and then greater control over the day-to-day stuff in my company rather than having a mountain of options for what was a very "set it and forget it" feature in the last couple of TEWs.

 

I would spend the first 30mins of my save dialing in exactly how I wanted my product to be. I'll use the IPW example again. If I were in 2016 I would fiddle with the hardcore, and try and match up the traditional and the SE models until I got what I wanted for Performance/Pop(in this case 60-40ish) than I'd tinker until I had the creative freedom I wanted on match types, with as few mandatory match set-ups as possible. Then I would adjust based on if I wanted exotic matches, or structures like Young Lion or w/e. This was one of my favorite features because of how close I could get it. Now I close out every time I have to figure out how to shoehorn in a wild brawl on a show I don't want one on, and vise-versa. Could I just take a pen? Sure. But 10% grade nerfs add up real fast.

[radical]

The bad:

 

I don't expect a show to not have problems, but honestly, some of this stuff is so counter-intuitive that I wonder if it's not for the few dozen people who have "solved" TEW and just power-game it. For people who want to have a fun booking/promoting sim, I'm not sure it's very fun as-is.

 

I started a game as USPW, ran a show, and immediately ran into a hidden penalty about stories not moving forward enough (although I didn't get any warning), and had my show knocked to under 70. How is a new player or someone who is coming back to the series supposed to figure out what's going on?

 

I started an SWF save and my first show was built around a big tag match with Rocky Golden and Valiant against Scythe and Brandon James, it got an 81... and the show got a 68, because there weren't 5 storylines with 70 heat. SWF fell to medium size, entered a shocked state, and the broadcaster is unhappy.

 

This kind of penalty and this level of penalty on a first show, is, in a word, "dumb." "Hmm, Undertaker and Steve Austin wrestled Mankind and Kane, but the show was bad because other than the Austin/Vince story, and the Undertaker/Mankind/Kane story, and The Rock/Triple H midcard feud, there aren't two more midcard feuds, so the show should only get a 70.

 

You have to go to the to the options menu to find the button to turn strict storylines off, but what's especially annoying is SWF is failing this in the default state on day 1: why are we supposed to know about this if the game is starting in a fail state?

 

 

I also tried playing around with products and some of it is just strange. If you tried to put SWF to its "Attitude Era" product, it says the fans expect at least one match rated on eye-candy. This almost feels like a glitch, it's so strange. I guess it's to replace the ratio from TEW2016, but it doesn't make any sense.

 

I know a lot of these issues: storyline effects can be turned off, but this is just so frustrating as an experienced player, I can't imagine a new player running a show, spending 20+ minutes booking their dream show, and then get a hidden penalty that tanks the company immediately because WWF was failing a very arbitrary penalty on day one.

 

A lot of your criticism is based on assumptions and some of it is just plain wrong.

 

Booking Analysis absolutely tells you when you have booked less storylines than what is required for the respective products.

You seem to assume that the penalties are too severe, which at least for most of them just isn't true. They don't critically hurt an otherwise great show.

 

First, your USPW example:

I just booked a show with USPW and intentionally only furthered one story. From the match and angle ratings the show should have gotten a rating between 75 and 76, not sure which way the game rounds the numbers. Ultimately, due to the storyline penalty (I didn't get any other penalties) it got an 74. That's not what I would call game breaking.

 

Second, SWF:

You're mixing stuff up here. You are only required to use three storylines per show, doesn't matter what heat.

You need to overall have five stories with 70+ heat going, but you don't have to feature those at every show.

You're show rating won't be penalised for this, though you're momentum and/or overness will probably take a hit. I haven't found a way to test how severe that is however.

You're low show rating is most likely a result of SWF using a "Three Ring" match focus, which definetely isn't making booking them easy.

Also, what the heck is wrong with eye candy matches within an "Attitude Era" setting? There were very few women's matches in WWE back then, that wouldn't be classified as such. Even if it wouldn't fit, I doubt the penalty for not putting on one such match would be worth mentioning.

 

And finally, you're dream show should be penalised to hell and back if it doesn't make sense within the product. Old and new players can check out the handbook at any time. It is there for a reason. I find it rather odd to expect a great rating without at least checking out the basics.

[Sons of Kohral]

I would spend the first 30mins of my save dialing in exactly how I wanted my product to be. I'll use the ICW example again. If I were in 2016 I would fiddle with the hardcore, and try and match up the traditional and the SE models until I got what I wanted for Performance/Pop(in this case 60-40ish) than I'd tinker until I had the creative freedom I wanted on match types, with as few mandatory match set-ups as possible. Then I would adjust based on if I wanted exotic matches, or structures like Young Lion or w/e. This was one of my favorite features because of how close I could get it. Now I close out every time I have to figure out how to shoehorn in a wild brawl on a show I don't want one on, and vise-versa. Could I just take a pen? Sure. But 10% grade nerfs add up real fast.

 

Are you referring to ICW in a mod or IPW? If it's IPW (anti-establishment hardcore), it calls for either 1 wild brawl OR 1 hardcore match (which if you're not putting on a hardcore match in IPW or ICW, is it really a hardcore promotion?). Alternatively, you could always turn match aims off since I've noticed those get in the way of booking shows more often than not.

 

Otherwise, my statements on min/maxing apply.

[Slim Jim]

The status update and patch improvements so far have brought back a lot of my excitement. Particularly since the momentum bug was caught, it has made getting decent (and upwards) grades much easier. Very pleased with the 90 rated cinematic Main Event between Rocky Golden and Scythe I just ran.

 

I hope the more major changes (to UI, etc.) that are being made are going to put me back on the release day buy bandwagon. And I hope mod makers are on that too so we get some of the excellent TEW16 mods ported over (particularly thinking of Genadi's Montreal Aftermath and Death of WCW but there were so many excellent options by the end of TEW16's life cycle).

 

One change I am still hoping for is an easier booking screen in terms of reordering segments. I tend to book everything I know I want on a show and then add in the final few gap fillers or show-coolers, which have to be clicked into place and that can be quite tedious with a 15/20+ segment PPV. Drag and drop would be perfect but I'd settle for quicker response time from it.

[The Nickman]

Stupid question all... but where do I see this status update I see everyone mentioning while I’m finishing my morning coffee?

[LucasLutkus]

This doesn't rule out bigger number grade graphics coming back instead of tiny white text, right...? Right? 😐

 

That’s my biggest concern from the post as well. The tiny white text is awful. I miss the big numbers.

[LucasLutkus]

Stupid question all... but where do I see this status update I see everyone mentioning while I’m finishing my morning coffee?

 

http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=545678

 

The new post