The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[bigtplaystew]

Two dirt sheet articles i wanna bring up:

 

1) WWE is bringing back cruiserweights.

- Rumor has it they are looking at a show centering around smaller talent. While I wish they approached a smaller weight class differently, it'll be fun to see smaller guys at that bigger level. I still think cruiserweights should be part of your big show but thats just me.

 

2) Kofi and Jericho tore the house down in Abu Dhabi

- I am a Kofi fan. The guy is corny at times but he does things in the ring that really truly impress me. Apparently, they had an amazing match this week at a house show and I'd love to see Kofi get a big push with dudes who can work.

[milamber]

Wade Barret's new theme is generic and boring -- bring back the old one. I dislike them saying Sheamus outlasted 29 other men in the Rumble when he came in at #22 and outlasted the remaining 8 men. Not a big deal just a pet peeve.

 

Sheamus/Show v Barrett/Rhodes - Good tag match.

 

I'm in love with Heel AJ

 

Good to see DiBiase back. His feud with Hunico has been fun.

 

Orton v Bryan (with Big Show) - Good ending to a good SD.

[djthefunkchris]

They always say that about a Rumble winner, but ussually the other commentator points out the facts. "He outlasted 29 other competitors!", "Don't you mean three? He was number 30 after all!"

 

I missed Smackdown (always do), but perhaps I'll watch it on their sight when they get it up.

[BHK1978]

Question of the older fans, I was watching an MSG match from the 1980's between Bad News Brown and Randy Savage. Anyway, I was wondering who the commentators for that show were.

 

I know one was Hillbilly Jim and the other was Lord Alfred Hayes. The third guy is who I would like to know. I know that is not much to go on but I was thinking that maybe the MSG shows had the same commentators each show and so therefore someone might know who it is I am talking about.

[borman_48]

Question of the older fans, I was watching an MSG match from the 1980's between Bad News Brown and Randy Savage. Anyway, I was wondering who the commentators for that show were.

 

I know one was Hillbilly Jim and the other was Lord Alfred Hayes. The third guy is who I would like to know. I know that is not much to go on but I was thinking that maybe the MSG shows had the same commentators each show and so therefore someone might know who it is I am talking about.

 

 

That one? Sounds like Ron Trongard of AWA fame honestly. But I dont know of him working for WWF, so I'm not sure. I'm not really an expert though as I was only 2 months old when this match was taking place.

[BHK1978]

 

That one? Sounds like Ron Trongard of AWA fame honestly. But I dont know of him working for WWF, so I'm not sure. I'm not really an expert though as I was only 2 months old when this match was taking place.

 

Yes that was the match I was talking about. Could be Ron Trongard, I have not watched enough of the AWA to really know what he sounds like.

[JackKnifed72]

 

That one? Sounds like Ron Trongard of AWA fame honestly. But I dont know of him working for WWF, so I'm not sure. I'm not really an expert though as I was only 2 months old when this match was taking place.

 

Your Good:

 

Found this on a website selling WWF DVDs:

 

WWF Live in New York City, NY. Madison Square Garden December 30,1988

(A- quality ~ 2 hrs ~ SA menu)

Very good quality original MSG Network televised version. Includes Rod Trongard, Hillbilly Jim, & Lord Alfred Hayes on commentary.

The Blue Blazer VS. the Red Rooster / Bad News Brown in ring rant / Mr. Perfect VS. Koko B. Ware / Rick Rude in ring segment where he allows a female audience member to enter the ring and kiss him. But Hillbilly Jim enters the ring and kisses the woman instead and then Rude & Jim brawl. / Jim Duggan VS. Dino Bravo (w/ Frenchy Martin) / Rick Rude, Powers of Pain, ints. / Tim Horner VS. Barry Horowitz / WWF Tag ttls: Demolition VS. The Powers of Pain (w/ Mr. Fuji) / Greg Valentine VS. Ron Garvin / WWF World ttl: Randy Savage (w/ Miss Elizabeth) VS. Bad News Brown

[BHK1978]

Thank You JackKnifed72, it has been bothering me since I watched it, I am just glad I finally know who it was.

[ThriceP86]

From the link posted above, Savage's tights in that match were awesome! He had some of the best tights ever.

 

By the way, I was watching the 1/20/12 (or 20/1/12 for UK fans?) episode of Smackdown and I thought it was hilarious when McIntyre clotheslined the ring-post during the blindfold match. Ha, I wonder what Drew did to deserve such a bad storyline...

[ubernoob]

From the link posted above, Savage's tights in that match were awesome! He had some of the best tights ever.

 

By the way, I was watching the 1/20/12 (or 20/1/12 for UK fans?) episode of Smackdown and I thought it was hilarious when McIntyre clotheslined the ring-post during the blindfold match. Ha, I wonder what Drew did to deserve such a bad storyline...

 

A bad storyline is better than no storyline though.

 

I enjoyed the comedy of that match as a nice break.

[shawn michaels]

Never thought i'd say this but...is it me or WWE has been gradually improving in quality since last year? I mean...they aren't as good as the ruthless agression era, for example, but they are getting away from the PG (slowly) and are beeing less predictable then in recent years. Good for them. I really hope we can have quality wrestling on wwe in this year or next one. I really miss it.

[djthefunkchris]

Honesty, I think it's just you. I don't really see it being all that much different. I definately don't think PG has anything to do with quality storylines and gimmicks....

 

I would say it's more interesting right now, because we are on the verge (as we were in say the "Attitude" time period) of a roster turnover going to younger guys. I know most people have been waiting like 8 years or something for that, so it has to be an exciting (maybe too strong a word) time for them... but for someone that has watched them for decades, it's a natural thing. They can't have HHH and Undertaker and the rest of the guys that are getting older, headline forever.. So you have to eventually look for strong solid talent to take their place and build the product around them.

 

Bassically, all I'm saying is that people that have been begging for "new blood" are going to eventually get it within' the next few years, if not sooner.... and I mean on the top of the card, not just drifting around from Mid to Top as needed. It has to happen eventually, as some of our younger fans will point out five to ten years from now to a new group of fans when they start complaining that the Daniel Bryans, Cody's and Punk's have been at the top too long, and complain that they are burrying all the younger guys... Remember that it's just a matter of time when it will happen yet again (no matter what promotion, it has to eventually).

[shawn michaels]

Honesty, I think it's just you. I don't really see it being all that much different. I definately don't think PG has anything to do with quality storylines and gimmicks....

 

I would say it's more interesting right now, because we are on the verge (as we were in say the "Attitude" time period) of a roster turnover going to younger guys. I know most people have been waiting like 8 years or something for that, so it has to be an exciting (maybe too strong a word) time for them... but for someone that has watched them for decades, it's a natural thing. They can't have HHH and Undertaker and the rest of the guys that are getting older, headline forever.. So you have to eventually look for strong solid talent to take their place and build the product around them.

 

Bassically, all I'm saying is that people that have been begging for "new blood" are going to eventually get it within' the next few years, if not sooner.... and I mean on the top of the card, not just drifting around from Mid to Top as needed. It has to happen eventually, as some of our younger fans will point out five to ten years from now to a new group of fans when they start complaining that the Daniel Bryans, Cody's and Punk's have been at the top too long, and complain that they are burrying all the younger guys... Remember that it's just a matter of time when it will happen yet again (no matter what promotion, it has to eventually).

 

Yeah, i know that. And i guess that it can cause the false sensation of improvement, but i still think it is improving very slowly. I'm not saying that the changes are dramatically evident, i just think that it's changing very slowly. Maybe it's the new blood entering that causes that sensation, maybe not. Anyone else cares to comment on

the subject? I think djthefunkchris makes a good point, but i still maintain my claim.

 

Edit: Chris, of course the PG has everything to do with the quality of storylines and gimmicks, as it limits them, and softenes them. Going away from the PG is good. PG would never allow an attitude era, so it has everything to do.

[Jaysin]

You can tell a good story without excessive blood and cussing. If a writer can't write a good storyline without it, than they are in the wrong profession.

[cappyboy]

You can tell a good story without excessive blood and cussing. If a writer can't write a good storyline without it, than they are in the wrong profession.

 

Exactly. And you know what a good writer would do with the limitations and softer rules of PG? He would work around them and come up with material that makes you forget that it's supposed to be a PG environment. A great one would rally you to the PG rules and make them make sense within the story world. I would venture to say that most folks who have issue with the PG material that's been done in recent wrestling have it because it's been done poorly. I don't read the smark sites so maybe I'm behind the grind on what Creative is doing. But last I heard they didn't do too well at hiring people who even knew the genre. Much less people who had a sense of how to write it PG well.

[jhd1]

I agree with Jaysin. The Attitude Era is loved more because of the talent and the age people were when they watched it than because of any particular storyline(s). Unfortunately, for at least the last couple of years (although I'll happily admit to only watching on occasion), the WWE's storylines have been simplified, watered down and fairly formulaic. That's not because they've got a PG rating, it's because they have a fairly bland roster and they simply aren't very good stories (which is probably thanks to overcontrol and overcaution).

 

While it's easy to forget in hindsight, for every good storyline from the Attitude Era there's probably at least three terrible ones.

[shawn michaels]

All of you guys make good points. So, having those thoughts in mind, here is what i think is an acceptable conclusion:

 

WWE's is better now (even if not that much) because more talented workers are emerging to the important spots (like Punk and Danielson) wich also makes an impact on storylines and match quality, as there is more capable talent. Also, the regenaration on the roster may also cause a sensation of improvement, because there are new guys winning, hence the predictability isn't as much as before.

At the end of the day, all these things cause an improvement. Might not be that obvious, but we already saw trends or entire eras begin with less. Since CM Punk Broke out, things are a little better. Who knows? Maybe this is a new Era in the making right now. I'd like that. The PG era sucked, and i agree with you guys; it was probably because the writters did not know how to write for it.

[Tha Black Phenom]

The PG era sucked simply because they worked hard at shoving it down our throats. They wanted to make the transition look crystal clear and they ran with the PG ball pretty steep. Then eventually they let up but some things still seemed wonky, I'd say lately indeed they have been on a rise, some aspects they're doing now are well welcomed, like giving attention to several angles at once on Raw, along with the array of talent we're seeing on the cusp of filling the headlining spots.

 

Many things they could've done on those PG days, they didn't do, if not that then there were bad things they focused on... I remember Raw being so riddled with advertisements, and the guest hosts added even more to the detriment. So yeah, they're long ways ahead than what they used to be.

[Candyman]

Something I read about a year ago says DR's won't clear him to wrestle.

 

That's Edge. Shawn Michaels is perfectly healthy. Edge is the one who won't be cleared to wrestle.

 

CM Punk

Daniel Bryan

Y2J

Randy Orton

 

Can't think of anyone else who would be putting on better matches than him. I say arguably because I think HBK can put together a match better than Orton for sure. Y2J has put on weight since his better days and is also older. So that leaves 2 guys who I think can actually out work HBK off the top of my head right now.

 

Randy Orton is very out of place on that list. If you're going to include him, you have to include guys like Cena, Sheamus, Alberto Del Rio, The Miz, etc. who are just as good as Orton. I think the list stops at CM Punk and Daniel Bryan when you're talking about guys who would be better than Shawn Michaels if he returned on a full time basis. Maybe Jericho too, but we haven't seen enough of him since his return to make a judgment on that, IMO.

 

Fair enough. I'm not going to sit here and argue opinion with you. You think Shawn was still good in the end of his career. I think he was too, just to a much lesser degree than he had been.

 

That's true, but you're comparing him to the best in ring performer of all time - which is what he had been. That's not fair to him. A guy like that can lose a step or two and still be one of the best in the world.

 

I dislike them saying Sheamus outlasted 29 other men in the Rumble when he came in at #22 and outlasted the remaining 8 men. Not a big deal just a pet peeve.

 

Well, it'd be 12 since there were already 4 in the ring when he got there. And really, you could say he "outlasted" 27 since he was in the ring longer than anybody but Miz and Rhodes. But I get what you're saying.

[djthefunkchris]

Back on the PG topic, I tend to agree with a couple statements about them not having writer's able to support the storylines in a compelling manner, and the fact that they seemed to shove it down our throats, although I think that was meant more for the powers that be (the critics of the wrestling atmosphere).

 

I've seen just as many "Great" movies in PG as I have in "R" or PG13, or whatever else. I really don't have a problem with it one way or the other. To me, it's more of a "Gimmick" to have cursing and blood, and whatever else, to make up for lack of good storylines (in Wrestling or the Movies). I think what irritates me most of things like this, is when you see something that looks good in the commercial, and when you go watch it, it's not really what it was made out to be. I talk to my wife about things like this all the time, in the movie world. Things like a good Jason movie, or Freddie or what have you. Not to pick on these so much, but I like a thriller as much as anyone. I want to be drawn in and surprised, if not frightened. To me, alot of gore doesn't equal "Scarry" or compelling. A movie where people are decapitated with chain saws isn't as interesting to me, as the movie when the character goes around the corner and something is out there that seems to jump at me, the viewer, and make me jump. A movie like that, without any gore at all, can get me alot more interested then one that is driven only by gore.

 

However, if they can do the gore and the drama, and the intensity, I have no problem with it at all. My favorite Jason movie in years (For example), was Jason X I believe, the one where they kind of centered the movie around a like-able cast that had me invested somewhat, before Jason started chopping them up.

 

In Wrestling, I don't see the need for it to be honest. Everyone knows it's fake, and well, there is no real need to make a fake sport into a dangerous one when it's perfectly dangerous already. To me, no matter what kind of rating the show is, a good storyline will grab my attention faster then knowing what the show is rated. Proper packaging, a reason to invest in a character, and less going in circle's (story's going on, but not getting anywhere fast), will keep me interested. Yes, I want someone that's been getting the shaft to flip the middle finger and curse at the guy dishing it out, but it's perfectly possible to get the same result doing it a little differently.

 

I don't care if they are PG, R, PG 13 or whatever, as long as they get me invested somehow. TV shows and quite a few movies have been able to do that for years. Some of the biggest movies in history were PG (For example).

[BHK1978]

I agree with DJ, you can be PG and still put out good stuff. I like Bill Cosby as a comedian, now Bill does not work blue at all meaning he never swears or uses vuglarity at all. By the same token I love the stand-up of Eddie Murphy, George Carlin, and Chris Rock and their acts rely heavily on working blue.

 

All four men are great at what they do, Cosby is funny without having to work blue. I mean if you do not believe me check out his old HBO special from the from the early 1980's, it was great. You can make a great story and be PG or heck even G, without having to rely on the crutch of blood and vuglarity.

 

If you write crap that is what it is going to be crap. People tend to look back at the Attitude Era as being great but there was a ton of crap that was not great during that ear.

[shawn michaels]

I don't really think that CM Punk can outperform Shawn Michaels. I think that if Shawn returned today, he would still be awarded a PWI match of the year if he wrestled a broom, or wooden log. Sure, Punk is in his prime, no doubt that he's the best of the world...at the moment. But Shawn Michaels is the best in-ring performer of all time. Maybe he's a notch or two down from his good times, but as someone posted above, when a guy like that is a little worse than before, he can still be the best around. People have always underestimated Michaels and his abilities for a long time, but he's proven times and times again that he was the greatest ever in that ring.

Having said that, i hope he never comes back. as a big hbk fan, i'd hate to see him dragging, past his prime. I would only want him to come back if he could still perform at least at the level he did 2 years ago. Today, there's a big chance that that is still possible. But we all know that it won't be the case forever. So, Shawn had a great last match, a tremendous farewell on the top of his game...there really is no need to risk something like that for a couple of matches. (unless they were better then ever.) But hey...the guy had a good run, but something tells me it's not over. He himself said recently that although he is decided to keep his promess of not wrestling again, he's still loyal to the E and would still run to their aid if they rang the siren. So...i just hope to hear that siren soon...or never again.´

 

As for the PG, yes it's possible to do a good job on PG, or even one hell of a job. Never said that i wasn't. But to me, if i could have quality, and gore, and insults, and the liberty that non pg provides...with would be the cherry on top of the cake.

[Self]

I'm not quite so fond of Shawn Michaels as the above poster, but I do agree he was, and likely is, better than CM Punk between the ropes. I don't see where the 'great worker' reputation comes from with Punk. He's a good, slightly clumsy worker with a great personality. Shawn is much more polished... even if I don't find his offense particularly believable.

[shawn michaels]

I'm not quite so fond of Shawn Michaels as the above poster, but I do agree he was, and likely is, better than CM Punk between the ropes. I don't see where the 'great worker' reputation comes from with Punk. He's a good, slightly clumsy worker with a great personality. Shawn is much more polished... even if I don't find his offense particularly believable.

 

But his selling was awesome! Hard to achieve. And his offense was actually pretty good when he steped out of the same old routine the E gave him regularly. Sure, i'm a fan, i'm not neutral, but the fact is that the guy was never outperformed in his carreer. Never, ever. And as for CM Punk? The man is great.

[Linsolv]

As far as I'm concerned, Punk is the complete package. Is the the BEST worker in the ring? No, I guess not. I'd give the nod to Kurt Angle, probably, as my favorite between-the-ropes worker. But he's got a believable, well-performed arsenal in the ring, he's magic on the mic, he's got a good look, he can chain wrestle, he can brawl, he can do top-rope stuff...

 

Having everything is a major plus.