The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Mootinie]

Cody Rhodes is an AEW guy with his AEW theme and his AEW gimmick. Vince has a proven track record of refusing to run with talents that aren't his own creations.

He put the WWF title in the midcard when he put it on Flair, he never ran with Luger when the cupboards were bare. He never gave Vader a run when his business was lower than ever. He held back Booker T, he horribly exposed Goldberg, he brought in Sting just to job him out and it took him 4 years to see dollar signs in Rob Van Dam.

If you aren't a WWE creation, you immediately have a ceiling imposed on you. The only wrestler who bucks this trend is probably AJ Styles and even then, he had to go through with a "soccer mum" haircut and lose to James Ellsworth whilst he was WWE Champion before dropping the belt and being shunted back to the midcard.

I'm not saying the WrestleMania creative was good, but... folks we have been here before. For like 30 years we have been here before. People never see it coming but it's a Vinceism, he doesn't run with guys he didn't make.

[Derek B]

Overall, Wrestlemania was a very good show that mostly delivered what people wanted and looked to set up the next steps for WWE.... and then Roman got the win that almost no-one was expecting.  Like most poeple, I thought the story had been built for a near perfect conclusion that was going to pay off everything on the biggest stage of them all.  Really surprised Roman won and while I'm not as angry as a lot of people are with the result, I'm surprised and a little confused.  Largely because Roman has gone through more or less everyone at least once so nowthere NEEDS to be a great story to extend the overall Roman reign to another chapter.  It can be done, but I can't imagine anything being hotter than this was right here.

Money In The Bank feels like it's going to be a very big show this year, partly because whoever wins it almost feels like they have to beat Roman one way or another and there's so many interesting options there.  And if Gunther gets the chance to go against Roman on that show, which would make all the sense in the world, it has the potential to be an amazing show.

But yeah..... it felt like we were going to go a new direction but we're not there yet.  Triple H has earned some patience from me with what he has done so far.

.........

Oh, and WWE ave been bought out to be merged into a supercompanhy with UFC. Quiet news day 😛 Definitely going to be a "Finish The Story" mod for TEW in future because this is a landmark time in wrestling.

........

And Shane tore his quad.... like his dad, his brother in law and his brother in law's close friend before him.... so strange and not even top page news XD

[Matt_Black]

The only person left who makes sense to dethrone Roman is Jey, because WOW I'd say he's second only to Sami in how over he's gotten in the past few months. Of course, if Vince IS back in charge, I don't see that happening.

After that, the only guy left who has any sort of credibility is Lashley.

[St. Templar]

Let's take a step back. I had to be in medical stuff all day (yay for a day off of work?), so I had time to think about this. And that was after watching and pissing and moaning at the end of night 2 (especially after the highly-satisfying ending of night 1):

Let's say Cody wins the title off of Roman on Sunday night. He comes out tonight, and it's all about "the title Dusty got screwed out of back in 1977", the redemption of the legacy of Dusty Rhodes. It's a rehash of Cody winning the NWA title, and every headline was the "first father-and-son to win the NWA World Heavyweight Championship". That's it: it's the story of Dusty Rhodes; it's not the story of Cody Rhodes.

Now, Cody too has been screwed out of the title, but that could push it toward more of a visceral anger that Cody has about him being screwed in front of his wife, daughter, mother, sister, and -1. It's no longer something that happened before Cody was born. Now it's about Cody and what's been done to his kids. It's not about the "hard times" being put on Dusty by "Superstar" Billy Graham; it's about the "hard times" being put on Cody and his family by Roman Reigns.

Cody's main goal can (and should) still be dethroning Roman Reigns (and anybody who thinks losing this match kills Cody...I don't even know what to say...did you hear the pop the man got? Did losing to Roman kill Sami? Did it kill Drew...the singing maybe but not the loss), but before he can do that he has to destroy the Bloodline. That has to precede him finally being able to go one-on-one and actually conquer Roman.

If that's the story they move forward with (or something along similar lines), then losing at Mania makes sense. Plus, and this is a thought I had listening to Sam Roberts on the way home from the medicos, how cool would it be for Cody to challenge Austin Theory and win the U.S. Title at Backlash (since I'm almost positive Roman won't be there), pushing him into a scenario where he has an historical claim to challenge Roman again...and making him a Grand Slam Champion when he does beat Roman.

St.T

 

[overthetop2]

5 hours ago, St. Templar said:

Did losing to Roman kill Sami?

Already got shuffled back into the tag team title program.  The tag titles haven't mattered in over 20 years.

5 hours ago, St. Templar said:

Did it kill Drew...the singing maybe but not the loss

Any chance of salvaging that died at WarGames where the faces lost despite it meaning nothing to Roman for a Bloodline member to get pinned.  Drew went on to wrestle for the IC title instead at WM (and lose).

The loss kills Cody for the same reason the loss killed Booker T at Wrestlemania 19.  People were hoodwinked, bamboozled, lead astray, run amok, and flat out deceived into thinking that Booker/Cody was the big savior to end HHH/Roman's reign of terror, only for them to get jobbed out because of interference that no-one will remember 20 years later because only the result actually matters.  You can put the title on Booker/Cody some time later but it won't mean the same because Wrestlemania was their "time" and in kayfabe, they blew it, so now they're just another guy.

Edited April 4, 2023 by overthetop2
My bad, McIntyre was at WM

[Self]

10 hours ago, Matt_Black said:

The only person left who makes sense to dethrone Roman is Jey, because WOW I'd say he's second only to Sami in how over he's gotten in the past few months. Of course, if Vince IS back in charge, I don't see that happening.

It certainly sounds like Vince is back in charge. Shane's appearance made that clear enough on its own. 

I grew tired of the McMahon empire over a decade ago. I keep up with the news, and I bought the video game last year, but I don't actually watch WWE, and I think I'll keep it that way. The sale had me interested because I was hoping for big changes. Seems like quite the opposite. 

 

P.S. My prediction for Money in the Bank is Jey. The paranoia would be palpable. 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Self

[Matt_Black]

So last night, after the show ended, "Horrible", "Trash", and "Worst Raw" were all trending. Yikes. I personally didn't think the show was THAT bad (remember, I watched the RAW that had the Katie Vick segment), though I can certainly understand those who thought it was bad. In the first hour, the only match we had was... Omos.

[St. Templar]

20 hours ago, overthetop2 said:

Already got shuffled back into the tag team title program.  The tag titles haven't mattered in over 20 years.

Any chance of salvaging that died at WarGames where the faces lost despite it meaning nothing to Roman for a Bloodline member to get pinned.  Drew went on to wrestle for the IC title instead at WM (and lose).

The loss kills Cody for the same reason the loss killed Booker T at Wrestlemania 19.  People were hoodwinked, bamboozled, lead astray, run amok, and flat out deceived into thinking that Booker/Cody was the big savior to end HHH/Roman's reign of terror, only for them to get jobbed out because of interference that no-one will remember 20 years later because only the result actually matters.  You can put the title on Booker/Cody some time later but it won't mean the same because Wrestlemania was their "time" and in kayfabe, they blew it, so now they're just another guy.

Sami and KO just won the tag titles...as part of the hottest storyline in about 20 years. They're props for the Bloodline storyline, which means they're definitely important now.

McIntyre took part in what most fans seem to think was, at worst, the second-best match of the night and, at worst, third-worst of the whole weekend. Yes, he lost...and he took the pin to a dominant champ. In doing that, Gunther proves he's capable of standing up to a recent former WWE Champion and allows Sheamus to still have the gripe that he deserves another shot at Gunther since he didn't get pinned at Mania. In doing that, McIntyre made the other two guys in the match he was in look stronger. After reading his autobiography, I think McIntyre would even say that was more important overall than having another run with the IC title. Oh, and by the way, the success of his match in Cardiff had to clear a few heads who were probably a bit worried about doing another major show in the U.K. a year later. That's success in the wrestling business.

As for Booker/Cody, that's an interesting comparison. So, wrestling fans don't pay attention to the details? If that were true, the only thing that matters about Booker T is the fact that he's a six-time former world champion. The fact that he lost his match at Mania 19 (which I agree was an...odd...choice, at best) doesn't matter, because that's a fine detail. Likewise, if Cody goes on to win three, four, five...whatever...world titles in the future, one loss at Mania 39 doesn't matter. Now, I've been a wrestling fan since I was a small child, and I do remember the details. Booker losing at 19 sucked, but it allowed him to build a character for himself that, when he won the World title, made it seem that much better. As a fan of the man, I could feel bad about that booking decision and love where he got to. I thought he should have won multiple world titles in that run, but I wish Rey could have won more, too...and RVD...and...you get it. Cody losing Sunday sucks, but I'm not willing to just throw it all away and stop watching. If I get to where I'm not entertained by it, I'll stop watching (I've done it before). Until then, I'm going to continue watching, and I'm going to continue to criticize the questionable decisions and hope for better ones when that's the case.

By the way, I just finished watching Raw on Hulu (cable-cutters YO!), and I thought it was good. Of course I prefer Lesnar being a serious bad guy who wants to beat the crap out of Cody...and anybody else who makes him frown that day. I hope it builds to a program between them, since I have a feeling that it leads to Cody finally beating Lesnar. I wish a heel team had come out to challenge KO and Sami for the titles, but I don't mind the Street Profits, since I think it's building to a Dawkins heel turn and the Montez Ford Express to the Moon. I'm guessing Rey and Bad Bunny against Theory and Dominik at Backlash, and either Rey getting a U.S. Title shot or costing Theory the U.S. Title at some point. I'm not sure where they go with Becky and Lita and the women's tag titles, since I don't think they're losing them on Raw next week...although that wouldn't be a bad thing. I love Lita as much as anybody, but she doesn't look as smooth in the ring as she used to (not really a criticism; I don't swing a bat like I used to) and I don't think she wants a long in-ring run here...although I don't think I'd mind seeing Lita vs. Trish one more time...preferably in a short match. Could go either way really.

Have fun, kids. And don't take this so seriously. It's not TEW.

St.T

 

[BHK1978]

On 4/4/2023 at 5:01 AM, Self said:

I grew tired of the McMahon empire over a decade ago. I keep up with the news, and I bought the video game last year, but I don't actually watch WWE, and I think I'll keep it that way. The sale had me interested because I was hoping for big changes. Seems like quite the opposite.

 

Only a decade or so?  I have you beat on that one, I grew tired of them before the Attitude Era began.  Wrestling hog farmers, hockey players, and plumbers were just way too hokey for me and I was still relatively young back then (Early teens).   I was a fan of some of the Attitude Era, but I think a lot of people look back at that time with rose-colored glasses.  A good amount of the Attitude Era was just plain bad, maybe not hokey as some of the earlier stuff, but still bad.  Plus, back then I always viewed the Attitude Era as a copy of ECW, which annoyed me.  No rhyme or reason as to why, it just did.

When Vince finally "won" after he snuffed out WCW, I was annoyed.  Yes, by that point WCW was painful to watch, but I knew with Vince being the only viable major show in town, it was going to get worse.  That's when it pretty much became the HHH show.  As someone who never liked or saw anything special in HHH (going back to his days on Indy shows up here in New England), the show was miserable to watch.  I only watched it because I would hang out with my friends every Monday night and RAW was must see for them.

Wrestling for me in general is weird.  Because like you, I keep up with the news but I don't actually watch any of it at all.  I was watching MLW on a weekly basis but the talent for them just dropped right around the time of the pandemic.  As I said above I have not really liked the WWE since the late-80's.  AEW is just so bad.  Heck just knowing that the Young Bucks and Kenny Omega use Wayward Son as their theme song, makes me dislike the song.  Because it automatically makes the song lame, especially after seeing the three of them pose to it before they head down to the ring. 

Sorry for the rant there, but I do feel strange following an industry solely on what I read is happening and watching the occasional show.  I guess I am having a hard time giving up something I have watched for almost forty years.  Sort of like when I gave up watching Dr. Who, when Chris Chibnall destroyed the show (murdered might be the better word)...which is an entirely different topic, but it does hit the same way.

[eayragt]

I agree with Self, the fall of Roman will come after the fall of the Bloodline, which should take a few more months. Sure, I would have preferred Zayn to take the title, but that wasn't the route they wanted.

However, imagine Roman being the champion and having a Money in the Bank match between Gunter, The Usos, Zayn, Owens, Logan Paul, Cody Rhodes and Seth Rollins. While The Usos are falling apart (again). I can easily count 5 different ways forward with 5 different winners from that match. And I'm sure it would be a doozy.

[Matt_Black]

I really hope it's not Gunter winning the Money In The Bank, because that means we're going to have a Heel vs. Heel match somewhere down the road unless A) they do the cop out of having him challenge for the U.S. title, or b) Roman drops it before then, which seems unlikely right now.

[The Blonde Bomber]

There is one big problem I see with the Cody-Roman decision. After Triple H took over he started to build up something WWE hasn’t had for a very long time… Trust. Trust that stories will be told and we will be satisfied. For so long fans didn’t trust WWE to do the right thing or have a compelling story. Sure they thought we have more story to tell. But in this case the story hit a climax. Cody winning was a necessity to keep the trust you had only recently built. Now if they had a steady reputation for years this wouldn’t be a problem. However that’s not the case. Alongside this we now have Vince McMahon back in control which kills any trust left in the promotion.

[newbiezness]

3 hours ago, The Blonde Bomber said:

There is one big problem I see with the Cody-Roman decision. After Triple H took over he started to build up something WWE hasn’t had for a very long time… Trust. Trust that stories will be told and we will be satisfied. For so long fans didn’t trust WWE to do the right thing or have a compelling story. Sure they thought we have more story to tell. But in this case the story hit a climax. Cody winning was a necessity to keep the trust you had only recently built. Now if they had a steady reputation for years this wouldn’t be a problem. However that’s not the case. Alongside this we now have Vince McMahon back in control which kills any trust left in the promotion.

This.

[Blackman]

Watched Mania and though I slept through some segments I was entertained, so I thought the show was solid. Highlight probably was Flair vs Ripley. The rest was a tad too standard. I was expecting a bigger role for Samy, but I guess it'll do. Nearly perfectedly predicted both events if it wasn't for that pesky main event, but I guess I'm not the only one who didn't see that one coming.

The UFC 'merger' is interesting. I wonder whether they'll experiment with the 'scripted MMA' format. We might see an "INSPIRE", though I realise the changes of it happening are razor-thin.

[Matt_Black]

They've teased a Jey face turn without delivering so many times that I'm beginning to suspect that Tony Khan is booking things.

[Matt_Black]

I still don't like Michael Cole, but the sheer rancor he summons in his voice for Dominik Mysterio has been wildly entertaining.

[FellaLibby]

2 hours ago, Matt_Black said:

I still don't like Michael Cole, but the sheer rancor he summons in his voice for Dominik Mysterio has been wildly entertaining.

 Cole's hate for Dom is similar to Jim Ross to Triple H.

[St. Templar]

On 4/14/2023 at 10:51 PM, FellaLibby said:

 Cole's hate for Dom is similar to Jim Ross to Triple H.

Very reminiscent.

St.T

 

[Matt_Black]

I must say, Trish's "I lost the tag team titles in a terrible match ON PURPOSE" is quite the flex, even by heel standards.

[DrawingDimes]

15 hours ago, Matt_Black said:

I must say, Trish's "I lost the tag team titles in a terrible match ON PURPOSE" is quite the flex, even by heel standards.

Pretty sure she kicked out of multiple pin attempts in that match so I'm not even sure what the hell they're going with by that angle lol. The whole thing would've been much more effective if she blindsided Becky in the match instead of awkwardly afterwards

[St. Templar]

16 hours ago, Matt_Black said:

I must say, Trish's "I lost the tag team titles in a terrible match ON PURPOSE" is quite the flex, even by heel standards.

I thought it felt a bit meta.

St.T

 

[newbiezness]

I've read today that Nick Khan announced big cuts. Here is my top 10 wrestlers WWE probably will fire:

10. Bray Wyatt

9. Karrion Kross

8. Mustafa Ali

7. Ricochet

6. Braun Strowman

5. Chad Gable

4.Robert Roode

3. Butch

2. Johnny Gargano

1. Cody Rhodes 😝🤣🤣🤣

[CQI13]

2 hours ago, newbiezness said:

I've read today that Nick Khan announced big cuts. Here is my top 10 wrestlers WWE probably will fire:

10. Bray Wyatt

9. Karrion Kross

8. Mustafa Ali

7. Ricochet

6. Braun Strowman

5. Chad Gable

4.Robert Roode

3. Butch

2. Johnny Gargano

1. Cody Rhodes 😝🤣🤣🤣

And there would be about 3 that would be missed.

[Matt_Black]

Wait, Seth Rollins versus Omos at Backlash? Where did that come from? Did I miss a segment on Monday? Who even wants to see that? ... Aside from Vince, I mean.

[Matt_Black]

You know, for a show that allegedly had a lot of input from Vince McMahon, tonight's RAW wasn't bad. I mean, it wasn't great, because Triple H is in charge, and his booking is mediocre at best, but it wasn't the train wreck some were expecting.