The Official TNA / Impact / GFW Discussion Thread

[PeterHilton]

I think the thing s m 82 is pointing out is that the IWC actually spends a lot of time hammering TNA for its storylines.

 

I mean..you're making great points overall, but i don't see the IWC leaping to defend TNA's stories in the way you've maybe implied.

[crownsy]

Well, i mean, the IWC in general is never happy. Everyone's a great booker in their own mind (thats why we all like TEW hehe)

 

I was simply responding to the post about storylines in the WWE being watered down and predictable, not implying that the IWC doesn't hate on TNA as well.

 

The IWC hates every product to a degree, because it's never as good as they could have done

[PeterHilton]

Well, i mean, the IWC in general is never happy. Everyone's a great booker in their own mind (thats why we all like TEW hehe)

 

I was simply responding to the post about storylines in the WWE being watered down and predictable, not implying that the IWC doesn't hate on TNA as well.

 

The IWC hates every product to a degree, because it's never as good as they could have done

 

Fair enough. Although I wasn't trying to say the simplified storylines was abad thing. The WWE is doing straightforward and predictable...but they're doing it well and it's working.

[jesterx7769]

I actually think you hit the nail on the head. The whole "care" part. Would it really have been that much trouble to have Sting grab a mic and say "I hate you Hogan for always being a sellout!" or w/e you want him to say, pick your poison. They've had four shows to do this on (including the PPV) and they dont have to explain everything but to explain nothing?

 

Exactly like you said their whole theory is "Tune in next week so maybe we'll clue you in on X" instead of making you care and wanting to tune in for the worker or storyline or wrestling, its more trickery trying to get you tune in to get something explained to end your frustration, which yes, sometimes can be good, for example "Who kidnapped Samoa Joe?" that made me want to tune in. But when they use that tactic for what seems like everything every week and nothing gets explained, why watch when you know things aren't getting explained.

 

Yes we on the board are overally crtical/positive but if loyalists (as I imagine we all for watching week in and week out although i may stop watching like when Kurt Angle did speed dating, that was the last episode I watched before the new year and that was largely in part to getting DVR) get upset, what do you think the casual fan thinks? I'm betting confused just like the rest of us.

[Linsolv]

Clearly Vince is right, and proven so when you look at his company's balance sheet and ratings compared to TNA. 'The People' don't want 'pro wrasslin' anymore...the YouTube generation want things loud, fast and new.

 

There are so many options for entertainment these days between TV, games, internet, fresh air (LOL, just kidding!!)...if you don't keep peoples atention they just turn to something else. WWE provides short matches, quick transitions, flashy presentation etc. Sure, it's not pro-wrestling as we'd like to to be...but it's 'what the culture wants' these days.

 

As someone who does his share of gaming, I have to disagree.

 

Final Fantasy's one of the most successful game franchises in history. So's Metal Gear Solid. So's The Elder Scrolls.

 

What do these have in common? They're long. In fact, TES games really don't have an ending in the traditional sense.

 

---

 

What "culture" wants varies widely, but TNA's problem isn't that there's no community that wants wrestling. Look at ROH, whose out-of-the-ring storytelling is almost amateurish!

 

The problem with TNA is that they want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to claim to be more serious, but they want to have people who aren't serious watching too. They want to be good, but they don't want to log the hours to get the talent, they want "sure things" like Waltman and Hall -- who as we all know are about as sure as the Titanic.

 

 

As to predictability, it's okay if it's done well. When I (going back to the video game metaphor) play Modern Warfare, I'm not shocked by anything going on; it's pretty standard stuff. But the gameplay's fun, and that's enough for me. On the other hand, if you want to rely on massive surprises -- well, that wouldn't really work in video games cause spoilers are so prevalent -- you need to think it through. You can't book by the seat of your pants if you want your TOTALLY SURPRISING Sting heel turn to go over well. Bischoff and Russo seem to be allergic to too much planning.

 

EDIT: To bring that last thought full circle, the reason the Punk turn went so well is because Punk's a solid heel. Nothing surprising happened, but that's okay because when everyone saw it coming, they all thought "That's totally gonna work out well."

[shawn michaels]

 

Now compare that with TNA's heel turn on sting, for example. Is it sudden? sure. has it had "shock" moments? you bet.

 

It also suffers from the fact that i flat out don't care about it. TNA's booking staff has given me no reason to. Sting just showed up, kicked RVD's rear end, and now does the same every once in awhile.

 

Now, i know the IWC response "it will be explained later, right now it's a cliffhanger"

 

Bull, it's bad booking.

 

Have you ever read a story where it threw the climax in your face and then promised to explain it in due time? those storys better be told in phenominal style, or they are disjointed and jarring.

 

 

 

I would love to truly talk about this post, but i'm a bit busy now putting HBK and Bryan Danielson over everything that moves on my roster (lolz) , so here's goes a quick one: Where have you hear anyone here (just to give an example) defend the way in wich TNA turned sting (or the turn itself) or try to justify it by saying it's a cliffhanger? I may be wrong, but the majority here "pounded TNA until they were knocked out in the mat" because of the whole Sting situation. Hell, most of us here are always agreeing in the fact that although WWE is stale, it doesn't mean it is necessarily bad, and make's a lot more sense then TNA.

[crownsy]

I agree jester, it's just a carrot and stick way of booking.

 

It can be done well, but i dont think TNA really does. Don't try to trick me into tuning in. make me WANT to tune in.

 

Random side note:

 

has the FBI been notified about joe at this point? how many shows has it been since we've seen ANYTHING about that storyline?

 

I actually forgot it until you mentioned it lol.

[crownsy]

I would love to truly talk about this post, but i'm a bit busy now putting HBK and Bryan Danielson over everything that moves on my roster (lolz) , so here's goes a quick one: Where have you hear anyone here (just to give an example) defend the way in wich TNA turned sting (or the turn itself) or try to justify it by saying it's a cliffhanger? I may be wrong, but the majority here "pounded TNA until they were knocked out in the mat" because of the whole Sting situation. Hell, most of us here are always agreeing in the fact that although WWE is stale, it doesn't mean it is necessarily bad, and make's a lot more sense then TNA.

 

 

I think were talking at cross points. I was discussing why i think predictable storyline s are not in and of themselves bad, not trying to say that people don't criticize TNA. Both companies take heat, because everyone is a great booker in thier own mind

[Linsolv]

I'm a bad booker in my mind. But I think that I could be a worthy addition to TNA's team right now. "Hey, Lin, is this idea crazy?" "Yes, Eric." "Okay, I'll be back in a minute."

[shawn michaels]

I think were talking at cross points. I was discussing why i think predictable storyline s are not in and of themselves bad, not trying to say that people don't criticize TNA. Both companies take heat, because everyone is a great booker in thier own mind

 

Well, it just seemed to me that you were implying something like that, but maybe i misunderstood.

[jesterx7769]

BTW did you guys see the "reason" TNA is going 8-10 on April 5th? They are saying it is because of the NCAA final, which I think is a total bull reason. Are they really that worried about losing an hour of television for ONE night? No. I believe its b/c they are dissapointed with the Monday ratings (come on, did anyone really think the ratings would go from 1.2 to .86?) and the NCAA game gives them an excuse to experiment with the 8 PM start (which hopefully works)

[shawn michaels]

I'm a bad booker in my mind. But I think that I could be a worthy addition to TNA's team right now. "Hey, Lin, is this idea crazy?" "Yes, Eric." "Okay, I'll be back in a minute."

 

I vote this post for: POST of The Year!

[Remianen]

AJ at the time was even stating he'd rather be in the X-Division the heavyweight scene.

 

AJ always was the star of the promotion and the go to guy. He would be the guy I'd put the belt on but homeboy wanted to return to the X-Division.

 

I have a question. In 2004, which was the hotter and more popular part of the product, the "heavyweight scene" or the X-Division? You're trying to down AJ for choosing the NFL over the freakin' CFL.

 

Many now a day would say like... JBL wasn't a good champ in 2004 either, and I would disagree. He's no Kurt Angle, he can't have a good match with anyone, but in his brawling element against the people he can have good matches with he's a tremendous worker.

 

I can barely fathom how utterly crazy this sounds. Lemme see if I can illustrate how preposterous this assertion is.

 

Wet tissue paper can't stop bullets. But if you put a block of steel behind it, it's a tremendous bullet stopper.

 

Water can't fuel a car engine. But if you put pure gasoline with it, it's a tremendous fuel!

 

Put simply, ANY worker can look "tremendous" if put in the ring with far superior workers. That doesn't make the worker tremendous though. No more than catching a pass from Peyton Manning makes you a first ballot Hall of Fame receiver.

 

Look, the core of any and every successful team is built around homegrown talent. It's the same in wrestling as it is in other sports. The Yankees have Jeter, Cano, Posada, Rivera, all talent they developed internally. In fact, they didn't start to become successful until those workers were "ready". WWE's main event is packed with stars they developed (Cena, Orton, Batista, etc). TNA has.....AJ (and even that's debatable).

 

But I'll have to take Peter's advice (Planet Jarrett was the best period EVAR! ). It's pointless.

[jwt13]

BTW did you guys see the "reason" TNA is going 8-10 on April 5th? They are saying it is because of the NCAA final, which I think is a total bull reason. Are they really that worried about losing an hour of television for ONE night? No. I believe its b/c they are dissapointed with the Monday ratings (come on, did anyone really think the ratings would go from 1.2 to .86?) and the NCAA game gives them an excuse to experiment with the 8 PM start (which hopefully works)

 

I would have to disagree the NCAA would take most of the veiwers thats why but I would be surprised if they moved there full time even if ratings were better. And the reason ratings are so low for TNA right now is its wrestlemania time. You'll be seeing 1.0-1.3 in a few weeks afte WM imo. The NCAA Championship will probly do a 10.5-13.0 which take away alot of wrestling veiwers also

[jesterx7769]

Assumptions and excuses. You are assuming enough people that watch TNA (with the massive .86 ratings) are going to watch the NCAA game, which yes draws big numbers (most watched program in history) but I dont see RAW rescheduling? Heck they get bumped every year for the dog show. is TNA number going to drop to a .7/.6? oOo big drop for just one night. Plus the game comes on at 9, so best situation they get some people for the first hour (those who actually realize the time has been changed) then they lose them to the game since they were going to lose them anyway (once again assuming of course they turn on the game and not the start of RAW)

 

You are also assuming all is perfect and their ratings are going up (oh but they are, a .02!), where is the evidence? You are blaming it on WM? What happens if ratings don't go up then? Blame it on Baseball season starting? If RAW and WM are the problem then why do they draw the same rating on Thursday where there is no RAW to promote Wrestlemania?

 

I said it before and the WM and all excuses are bull. There will always be excuses, and what, is TNA just going to take a .4 hit every Feb/March for the WM build? Wow thats stable.

 

Wrestlemania->Now NCAA ->Baseball Starting->NBA/NHL Playoffs->Outside in Summer->Monday Night Football-> Holidays.

 

I've heard all the same excuses before (mainly when people would talk about WWE) and they go year round. Either put up or shut up which they haven't done. Excuses are worthless, book well, promote well, and people will watch if they like you. I'm not even saying I can fix TNA or be a master of all I just feel the one night move is ridiculous just to move up an hour for that one night when you are trying to get your fanbase accustomed to a new time (would make more sense to just show a replay which hopefully they do that week) and while Spike of course isn't going to cancel Impact they can't be happy with the drop (yes they need time but who likes less?) and now there are articles about WWE and USA beating Impact and Spike (which isn't fun to read how your wrestlng program draws a third less than the other network you want to compete with) the tournament just seems like the perfect cover for an experiment.

[Moe Hunter]

As to predictability, it's okay if it's done well. When I (going back to the video game metaphor) play Modern Warfare, I'm not shocked by anything going on; it's pretty standard stuff.

 

I'm sorry but when (Spoilers)

 

The American soldier you play as gets caught up in a Nuclear explosion, and you have to *play* his last minutes on this earth, gasping for air, limbs not working, vision blurred, blood and fallen bretheren everywhere...

 

That was pretty F'n shocking storytelling. And it was AWESOME. And I'd say it adds to the example of "shocks that are told well", as opposed to TNA's "shocks every week, and then we'll just forget to mention it next week. Tune in to *every* show to find out if we ever resolve this!".

[Linsolv]

I'm sorry but when (Spoilers)

 

[spoiler removed]

 

That was pretty F'n shocking storytelling. And it was AWESOME. And I'd say it adds to the example of "shocks that are told well", as opposed to TNA's "shocks every week, and then we'll just forget to mention it next week. Tune in to *every* show to find out if we ever resolve this!".

 

It's my girlfriend's PS3, and I'm not good enough to get very far in the limited time I've had to play. But I liked what I had so far, and it wasn't anything different from what I expected from what I saw.

[Tag01]

I'm sorry but when (Spoilers)

 

That was pretty F'n shocking storytelling. And it was AWESOME. And I'd say it adds to the example of "shocks that are told well", as opposed to TNA's "shocks every week, and then we'll just forget to mention it next week. Tune in to *every* show to find out if we ever resolve this!".

 

Awesome game. Awesome storytelling. Better than a lot of movies I've seen.

[TommyDreamerFan]

Vince doesn't know jack about Culture. He didn't even know what the Blair Witch project was, and he fired Kevin Thorne.

 

If you claim to know what the culture wants you would of jumped on the vampire band wagon you silly scalawag!

[TommyDreamerFan]

I have a question. In 2004, which was the hotter and more popular part of the product, the "heavyweight scene" or the X-Division? You're trying to down AJ for choosing the NFL over the freakin' CFL.

 

No I didn't say that at all. AJ didn't want to be used in the heavyweight division, he wanted to be used in the X-Division. And it was because of AJ, mind you, daniels got as over as he is.

 

 

I can barely fathom how utterly crazy this sounds. Lemme see if I can illustrate how preposterous this assertion is.

 

Wet tissue paper can't stop bullets. But if you put a block of steel behind it, it's a tremendous bullet stopper.

 

Water can't fuel a car engine. But if you put pure gasoline with it, it's a tremendous fuel!

 

Put simply, ANY worker can look "tremendous" if put in the ring with far superior workers. That doesn't make the worker tremendous though. No more than catching a pass from Peyton Manning makes you a first ballot Hall of Fame receiver.

 

Look, the core of any and every successful team is built around homegrown talent. It's the same in wrestling as it is in other sports. The Yankees have Jeter, Cano, Posada, Rivera, all talent they developed internally. In fact, they didn't start to become successful until those workers were "ready". WWE's main event is packed with stars they developed (Cena, Orton, Batista, etc). TNA has.....AJ (and even that's debatable).

 

But I'll have to take Peter's advice (Planet Jarrett was the best period EVAR! ). It's pointless.

 

PUT JBL in the ring with guys like Sandman, New Jack or any other guy that knows how to brawl and what you'll get with is a great wild brawl. Put him in there with a guy like Batista, who needs someone to make him look good, and of course the match is going to suck. It's going to suck even more if you don't play to his strengths (brawling) booking 101 sir.

 

If JBL is a knife, I'm not going to bring him to a gun fight. I'm going to bring him to a knife fight, why? Because he's a pretty sharp fn' knife! Your example is lame, sir.

[Moe Hunter]

Vince doesn't know jack about Culture. He didn't even know what the Blair Witch project was, and he fired Kevin Thorne.

 

If you claim to know what the culture wants you would of jumped on the vampire band wagon you silly scalawag!

 

Blair Witch Project release date: July 1999

Kevin Thorn character debuted: July 2006

Kevin Thorn's last televised match: December 2007

Kevin Thorn fired: January 2009

 

I'm not sure I follow your logic. Also, I haven't seen the BWP, but I don't recall it being about Vampires...

[Self]

Blair Witch Project has nothing to do with Kevin Thorne, but everything to do with Vince being out-of-touch with pop culture. He didn't even know about the Pirates movies until after Burchill had the gimmick for a while.

 

In terms of pop culture, Kevin Thorne was a wasted opportunity. He got in just before this latest Twilight-led vampire craze. Wrestling and Twilight have vastly different audiences, but if WWE could have used him (or a 'prettier' guy like John Morrison) to siphon off just a fraction of the Bella-brigade it could have been money. Turn him babyface, have him be mopey about how dangerous he is, toss in a romantic subplot and you'd be laughing all the way to the bank. The money bank.

[Nedew]

PUT JBL in the ring with guys like Sandman, New Jack or any other guy that knows how to brawl and what you'll get with is a great wild brawl.

 

Oh man, I would kill to see JBL-New Jack. I ****ing love New Jack, and that would be a brawl to end all brawls (not a Brawl For All, mind). Stifftastic!

[Daffanka]

In terms of pop culture, Kevin Thorne was a wasted opportunity. He got in just before this latest Twilight-led vampire craze. Wrestling and Twilight have vastly different audiences, but if WWE could have used him (or a 'prettier' guy like John Morrison) to siphon off just a fraction of the Bella-brigade it could have been money. Turn him babyface, have him be mopey about how dangerous he is, toss in a romantic subplot and you'd be laughing all the way to the bank. The money bank.

 

So they're pulling the Rocky Maiva heel turn is what you're saying?

[Self]

So they're pulling the Rocky Maiva heel turn is what you're saying?

 

I don't think that's what I'm saying. Did you quote the wrong post?