TEW2020 Discussion Thread

[Greylocke]

Floating booking ideas may make things a little more convenient, but really it wasn't really that much of a hassle to just try booking the worker in what you want him to do on a random early show to see if he rejects (as long as you don't run the show it can always be undone). As has been already mentioned, a real improvement will be to have the option of offering the worker incentives to be more agreeable to your booking ideas.

[Teh_Showtime]

Only thing I’m confused about right now is FOW/Comparison because in WMMA they work pretty much perfectly together.

 

Wrestler A could have 95 brawling and wrestler B could have “Very Strong”, the comparison just shows you what you see if you’d go into their individual pages.

 

Ignoring the pros/cons of FOW because I can see it from both sides, but as far as how comparisons handle it, I really don’t understand that much. I personally love FOW and wrestling is like 95% taking a gamble on guys, so if that’s the only reason it’s removed I’m a little gutted

[piccamo]

I appreciate being able to compare workers and being able to search, but I am a little disappointed with the removal of FOW. Maybe a solution could be an option to add Scouting to the game as a rating. The better your Scouting, the more accurate the values you see. At low Scouting you might see a worker with Technical at 80 - 100 while at high Scouting, you would see the same worker at 85.

[Luchador Canadiense]

If today's "ask them" feature includes asking whether they'll drop their mask in a mask vs. mask match, then I am THRILLED! I love this idea.

[EBEZA]

I liked the Fog of War, and always played with it on, but the new features that have been announced do sound like really nice QOL updates, so they more than compensate.

 

I don’t know how I feel about no more FOG...Never been a fan of knowing exactly how a worker is rated. It would be cool if we could also have an option to see ratings as numbers or letters. That would more than compensate for the removal.

 

Genuinly gutted FOW has been taken out, I know not everyone used it but it's going to be so boring to me just going off numbers, sometimes it's fun giving monster pushes to guys then finding out they weren't worth it. Now everything will just be "why hire x when y is better" "I won't use dominate as numbers aren't high enough" etc.

 

To me it'll now just become a numbers game, with pretty much no room for error as everything is there. No more giving loads of mic time to a guy who it turns out is useless on the Mic, it'll just be hiring people based on that info rather than taking a risk on people who seem fun

 

I'm surprised to hear Fog of War isn't so popular as I have never played 16 without it, it adds a whole level of stategy about whether to invest in certain wrestlers who you think could be great but you don't know enough about them yet, and in general just seems realistic, as a random booker I shouldn't know EVERYTHING about EVERYONE, not even my own roster unless I'm a large company with well known wrestlers. But with all the great changes in the last week or so it's not a game changing for me.

 

Real happy about the added options when talking to a worker, can't say the same about Fog of War. For me it's always been a double-edged sword, I liked the element of uncertainty, surprise and development as a player but kinda hated it as a diary writer since I couldn't quite narrate a worker's style in a match and had to take a look under the hood (a.k.a. editor). I understand how FOW can mess up the new "search & compare" options, but if there's a chance of any middle ground, I'll happily take it.

 

To elaborate on that, if the code can handle it, I think Adam could make it an option that can be turned on and off and adjust the search results accordingly. In TEW16, having FOW off means you get owner goals like "Don't hire anyone with an X stat of below this margin" which you don't get if FOW is on. Likewise, searching for a worker with, say, "Decent Chain Wrestling skills" might prevent someone from appearing on the results just because of the fog (I believe). In the same vein, FOW could be kept as an optional feature but with the added risk of missing out on some folks when doing searches.

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's (at least) not (entirely) happy about FOW being removed! I personally think there's a lot of value in FOW, including the ability to develop a scouting system, much like Football Manager-type games...

 

On the FOW piece in games such as FM they reflect scouting knowledge by on the comparison or worker screen showing either a blank value or a range of values which shrinks as knowledge increases.

 

If possible I would prefer it to show only absolutes for highly popular or visible workers and as their popularity decreases the range widens until little is known.

 

This would drive more into the development process as hiring a complete unknown could lead anywhere whilst a local indy star may look like a solid prospect until you take a closer look at them. If you interview someone you know basics like their look maybe charisma or mic ability (first impression) but you wont know much else till they work in most cases unless they are already working regularly or on TV.

 

Ultimately I wont lose any sleep if it stays as announced but would be nice to have.

 

This is exactly what I would have in mind. It would still be comparable, too. In fact, unless I'm mistaken, FM does have player comparison, even without full knowledge of players' stats... right?

 

I have never actually used fog of War, even though i always wanted to give it a roll. I'm sad to see any feature removed, but this one wont effect how I play TEW, at the very least.

 

This is absolutely a fair take. My opinion is, wherever at all avoidable, no features should be taken out of games. No matter how many people feel it's irrelevant, it's probably someone's favourite feature, or at least something they'll sorely miss. I don't believe the comparison ability necessitates removal of FOW, so I would say this is avoidable.

 

Floating booking ideas is also fantastic. Great addition.

 

Agree whole-heartedly. Much easier to long-term plan without too many wrenches being thrown in at the last minute!

 

I hope there is a small % of the time where a worker changes their mind when it comes down to the moment of truth. Not a common thing, and possibly based on personality, where they'll say one thing to your face and screw you over on the big day.

 

”On second thought, this doesn’t work for me, brother.”

 

This would be perfect, and I love the reference This would especially work for wrestlers whose personality tab describes them as "flaky" and who have pre-agreed something like a crazy bump...

[nebradska]

Everything is good so far, except removing fog of war. That's a disaster. I'd prefer to keep that than to have the search function it was dumped for.

[shawn michaels]

The worker changes their minds at last minute should only happen if there were possible consequences, actions we could take. One sided only would be dull. Let us remember that at the end of the day the Booker always holds more power than any star in the grand scheme of things. Like Vince accepting Warrior's demands and then having his revenge.

 

On the FOW thing, Showtime made a great point. As an avid WMMA player he does have a point. It works there with comparisons being possible. I know FOW is popular for many players. As I said, I always use it. As I also said I won't lose my sleep over the removal, given the gains, but finding a way to keep it would be in the best interest of the game.

[Kingster]

I love that we can now search for min and max values instead of just min values. Will make searching so much easier for me.

Skill/Pop comparison is a very welcome addition, too as are floating booking ideas.

 

But I'm seriously disappointed about fog of war being removed. To me, it was one of the best features of the game. Curious how Adam knows how popular or not popular the feature was, but it was really popular with me.

As someone mentioned earlier, comparing workers and fog of war work well together in WMMA. Can you not make it so that when comparing two workers, the game will compare them on equal scouting levels? So, for example one wrestler has a scouting level of 10, the other wrestler has a scouting level of 5, the comparison screen will compare them as if both guys were at 5? Or, if that's not possible, to make the comparison feature unavailable if you have fog of war turned on?

 

Sorry if I sound like I'm demanding stuff. I'm not. And I understand that some features are hard to implement and will not always work well with each other. I just think that removing a crucial feature of the game like fog of war is a big mistake.

[smw88]

This is exactly what I would have in mind. It would still be comparable, too. In fact, unless I'm mistaken, FM does have player comparison, even without full knowledge of players' stats... right?

...

 

Correct it does in FM

[scorpion]

As I said, I always use it. As I also said I won't lose my sleep over the removal, given the gains, but finding a way to keep it would be in the best interest of the game.

 

This is pretty much how I feel about fog of war. It's a nice feature that keeps me from turning it into a math game (only sign the guys with the highest numbers) but I think I'm far enough from EWR now, and the game has come so far since then in depth, that I shouldn't worry about dropping back into that mode

[EBEZA]

Can you not make it so that when comparing two workers, the game will compare them on equal scouting levels? So, for example one wrestler has a scouting level of 10, the other wrestler has a scouting level of 5, the comparison screen will compare them as if both guys were at 5? Or, if that's not possible, to make the comparison feature unavailable if you have fog of war turned on?

 

Tbh, I think you could even make it so that the comparison shows (for example) Ric Flair as a straight-up "100" for psychology, but brand-new indie wrestler as "55-85," so we know he's potentially pretty damn good, but we simply don't know at this stage in his career and at our scouting level, but we definitely know he isn't as good as Flair.

[K-Nection]

Honestly fog of war needed slight improvements not to be removed all together. It was crazy when physical appearance stats had just as much length to grind as someone's top row stats. This is one of the things that made road to glory games challenging in the early stages. Besides fog of war already had a toggle that you can turn on and off. The players that didn't like didn't use it.

[EBEZA]

Honestly fog of war needed slight improvements not to be removed all together. It was crazy when physical appearance stats had just as much length to grind as someone's top row stats. This is one of the things that made road to glory games challenging in the early stages.

 

Absolutely, not saying it was perfect, but to remove it completely seems an odd choice. I guess it might have been a victim of people who hate it posting "I hate FOW" but people who like it not posting "I like FOW," so the perception is that it's an unpopular feature.

 

As I said above, I don't generally agree with any features being removed from a game, but in this instance it's even more strange because it was an optional feature anyway, as it could be turned off in settings.

[ChairToFace]

I actually play every game with Fog of War turned on. That way I can't just see and pick from the best of the crop. Makes it more realistic to me.

 

After I while of playing, you sort of learn who's a beast, regardless of Fog of War, but it's still nice to have it on so you can't see their exact stats.

[PFElton]

Please put FOW back in. It adds so much immersion and simulates real-life guesstimation, much more important than the luxury of side-by-side comparisons.

[Makhai]

This is pretty much how I feel about fog of war. It's a nice feature that keeps me from turning it into a math game (only sign the guys with the highest numbers) but I think I'm far enough from EWR now, and the game has come so far since then in depth, that I shouldn't worry about dropping back into that mode

 

The problem with fog is, once you know who the studs and duds are, it's just annoying.

[EBEZA]

The problem with fog is, once you know who the studs and duds are, it's just annoying.

 

Well, yeah, but if you find it annoying you can simply turn it off in settings...

[K-Nection]

This is very useful if you're debating who to push, who to sign, etc. As this and the precise searching that was announced yesterday wouldn't be viable if different workers are rated in different ways, this means that the fog of war system is removed and so you'll always see ratings in a 0-100 format. I don't really like to remove features, but as skill searching and comparison were two of the most requested additions and fog of war has never been particularly popular, I think this this change will have a positive effect overall.

 

I think based on the response that alot of people have voiced today that it might've been wrong to assume that. You could just limit those search mechanics to the grades that is discovered. You could also add the vauge terms such as Excellent, Very Good ect. to include the ones you haven't.

 

Does this also mean that letter grades are removed as well?

[Teh_Showtime]

I actually play every game with Fog of War turned on. That way I can't just see and pick from the best of the crop. Makes it more realistic to me.

 

After I while of playing, you sort of learn who's a beast, regardless of Fog of War, but it's still nice to have it on so you can't see their exact stats.

 

With the possibility for extreme variance now, I had figured FOW would make games more fun than ever when the amazing prospect could potentially be hurt by the starting roll and you can’t book them to the top of the business like you could no matter what in 2016.

[steev42]

I also enjoyed Fog of War -- and I just went and made a suggestion as to how I think it could be implemented to both improve the system and work with the additional items that have also been implemented.

[BrokenCycle]

I hope the Talk To Worker feature includes "I wouldn't put him over... unless I was Kept Strong" or something to that effect.

[FlameSnoopy]

I hate that technical wrestling is one thing now. Huge disappointment. Mat Wrestling and Chain Wrestling are so different from each other this makes no sense to me whatsoever. With all the 'MMA stuff' (MMA stat, intensity, stiffness) removed, I guess I can somewhat understand removing Submissions, though I wouldn't. All three of the current technical skills are their own thing, to find a wrestler who can do all three of them to a good level is very rare. If anything, I have always wanted Mat Wrestling to be changed to Grappling. This way it could be used more intuitively when making stats, for example, for wrestlers with an amateur background that probably have their highest top row stat be Mat Wrestling to begin with. Grappling would then include not only wrestling on the mat, but also wrestling when standing up (so clinching basically). While I am at this, the rumble stats really need a rework. It would be so much better to remove Brawling & Puroresu and instead have Striking & Throwing/Slamming.

 

Also gutted to see Fog Of War gone. Sure it was far from perfect and it had it's annoyances. Personally, I always play with it on. Not looking forward to going back to the old way.

 

To me, removing these two things is a bigger loss than any of the features I've waited for years to get in (like the Variance option actually changing something, Experience). Really hoping for some good journal entries or the game better be leaps and bounds better under-the-hood to account for removing stuff.

 

Well, at least there's finally the search by skill feature...

[ChairToFace]

I think based on the response that alot of people have voiced today that it might've been wrong to assume that. You could just limit those search mechanics to the grades that is discovered. You could also add the vauge terms such as Excellent, Very Good ect. to include the ones you haven't.

 

Does this also mean that letter grades are removed as well?

 

I hope not. Letter grades and fog of war are two of the things that sort of make it harder to simply look at a number and say if something is good or bad. Makes it a little more realistic.

 

I don't usually play with letters on, but I do use fog of war. I don't see any point in removing it if we can always turn it off in the settings.

[Sharkn20]

I like the fog of war too.... Makes the game more interesting, otherwise you just go for the best prospective young players and make them raise...

 

Would it not be possible having something similar to football manager? Like comparing knowing stats with not fully knowing ones?

 

i.e.

 

Worker 1 has a Brawling of 70 in comparison Worker 2 has an in-Ring stat of "Good" as he is not fully unmasked yet... Therefore you can't separate the Brawling, from the others yet...

 

That would be perfect.

[tambourin81]

I think based on the response that alot of people have voiced today that it might've been wrong to assume that. You could just limit those search mechanics to the grades that is discovered. You could also add the vauge terms such as Excellent, Very Good ect. to include the ones you haven't.

 

Does this also mean that letter grades are removed as well?

 

Wasn't that how Search was working in TEW2016? But yea, I agree overall.

 

 

 

I really wish the feature list wasn't so transparently dominated by the opinions of like 4-5 oldtimers being in Adam's ear all the time.

 

The whole point of FOW was that you wouldn't sign the highest rated worker and just push them to the moon because you already knew how good they were, you had to feel out their strength and weaknesses over time and/or have them spend a few years on the indie circuit to find out if they were a breakout star or a dud. If you remove that, you're back to people signing the same 2-3 workers because we already know how good they are.