TEW2020 Discussion Thread

[cappyboy]

I love this idea. So Undertaker would have a "gimmick," whereas Stone Cold barely did (unless beer-drinker counts as a gimmick?), but both still managed to get mega over because they're great performers.

 

Gotta disagree with you here that Stone Cold barely had a gimmick. Dude was very much playing the Rebel gimmick. Playing it so fully and laying it on so thick, that at the time I couldn't necessarily take him seriously.

 

At times, watching Stone Cold reminded me of this old sitcom scene. I forget the show offhand but it dates back far enough you'd likely find it on Antenna TV or some similar network. Anyway it was a school show and one of the kids who was typically Mr. Nice Guy suddenly developed this Stone Cold style hardass attitude. The teacher he would normally love and respect asks him what he's rebelling against and the kid replies "What you got?" That to me was Stone Cold. He was so over the top bad boy, so ridiculously hardass he didn't even seem to know what he was rebelling against. He was just doing it for the sake of it so far as I could see.

 

Now over the years, I grant you it's become less of a gimmick. The Stone Cold persona has become more an integral part of who Austin is and grown to be more organic. But when he first started being Stone Cold it was as gimmicky as all get out.

 

I would also like to see a combination of the two systems: a list as already exists combined with a more flexible "new" system for those who want to create their own gimmicks.

 

Ultimately though this is the part that matters most for our purposes. And I'm right with you on this. Doing the new idea at the complete expense of the old system would seem to damaging to the game in the way dropping chained storylines was. Having some kind of balance would definitely seem best so as to allow the largest number of playstyles possible.

[landxx]

Wow this Gimmnick thing would add so much realism to game that is really needed im all positive about this so i hope we will get on Tew 2020

[Derek B]

I initially responded positively about the change, and I think I stick by that.

 

But would this mean the end of gimmick types and their affect in popularity changes? I.E A comedy gimmick takes less of a hit from losing but can't be too high up the card.

 

Also would it then mean the end of gimmick rating stats? I like the idea of gimmicks being a lot more free and open but hopefully it's doesn't strip the mechanic too bare bones. I could be completely misunderstanding the changes but I'd hope if you want a cocky gimmick (which off the top of my head I think gains pop faster with wins but also loses it faster with loses) then there's still some limit as to who can successfully play it. Especially with other types like comedy or brute it's obvious that some people could simply never successfully play it.

 

Gimmick skills would be replaced by attributes, as Adam said, like "Master Comedian".... these would likely be in two tiers for each, with a positive version and a negative version of each gimmick type while assuming that having neither assigned would be neutral. No need to guess on a 0 to 100 scale how good someone is at something, just far more streamlined. The gimmick effects will be more varied than they are now, with each one potentially getting all kinds of attributes attached.... so a cool gimmick could have it's more rapid rise and fall of momentum/popularity, but may get many other things too. Giving far more scope for gimmicks being able to accomplish a lot.

 

I'm not sure some of the people are quite getting how much this potentially ties in with attributes too and how much more you'll have to think about booking decisions. But that's why the discussion is out here. To get a feel for it, to see what other potential ideas there could be to get better and to help give more knowledge on what could be there. In theory there could be all kinds of new gimmick categories added, all kinds of new effects added and so much more....

 

So the more inspiration there is out there, the better.

[Cold Cobra]

Really like the new gimmick proposal, put me down on the list of people who just had a handful of basic gimmicks that he gave people and imagined the rest, so this would save a lot of time...

 

Plus, if the attributes did end up not only taking away the personality sliders but knocking most of the performance sliders out as well then putting a new worker in a database would be even more quicker, especially if there does end up being a pre-determined list of gimmicks and a "do it for me" button for those lower down guys you don't have much info on, gimmick-wise.

[Bigpapa42]

I love the sound of the new gimmick system. I like that it ties in very nicely with the attributes system rather than requiring a whole bunch of additional data.

 

Saw one or two mentions of possible extra work for modders. And honestly, the hold system was too. It was a nice addition on TEW 2016 when default gimmicks for a worker were ones they would automatically suit, but scaling the gimmick ratings and then picking a gimmick was a pain. Which got more painful if you weren't using their default gimmick, meaning you had to check in a test save whether the gimmick actually suited them or not.

[outlawman76]

I love the sound of the gimmick idea as was explained. I think it opens it up to allow people to be more creative, and dynamic with gimmicks. That said, I think there should be an easy button for those who don't want to get in depth with it. If not an easy button, a generic button similar to the naming button for tag teams.

[Tom Bombadil]

I would miss the old categories and stuff, and the ability to draw inspiration from filtering a list, but this sounds like a net positive anyway. Tentatively in favor of the change, but I don't want to see it dumbed down TOO much.

[djthefunkchris]

On the other, it also kind of feels like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Kind of like getting rid of chained storylines was. The gimmick system may not have been perfect but as long as you weren't creating from scratch it did eliminate some overthinking. Seeing as it boiled down a side of the game people could get lost in otherwise. You found what type of gimmick the guy excelled in, found one you liked in that category and you rolled with it. With the new system, I can see people trying so hard to craft the perfect gimmick they forget to play the actual game. And as someone else mentioned, pity the poor mod makers trying to figure out what everybody's gimmick is in a character pool of multiple thousands. The way I understand this new gimmick system, it seems like it should stand alongside the current gimmick system. Or even better be part of a higher skill level. That way those who want the challenge of crafting everyone's gimmick can do so. While those it might drive to overthought and distraction could set it aside and not be troubled by it.

Exactly my thoughts on it, to the T. Why throw it out, just add this to it (IMO).

[TheWho87]

First off I'm all for the updated news on gimmicks, however rather than removing the gimmick file, could it not be replaced by a gimmick template? Something like that was mentioned in the last paragraph in the announcement to have an "an in-built list of suggestions", but instead of having a built in preset, why not have something editable, thet would just include a basic set up so that if you use the preset it would fill in the information, but still allow you to tweek the gimmick.

 

Secondly if the gimmick file was removed, how would another recently announced feature, the gimmick body types, work with this newer set up?

[shawn michaels]

The new gimmick system being proposed seems interesting, but I sure hope it is worked to achieve a balance that doesn't depend solely on RNG, so to speak, but also doesn't fall flat as too easy. That middle ground is important and getting rid of the old gimmick files that are pretty much useless and repetitive is a plus. I do hope gimmicks have a bigger importance in the game, though, like they have irl.

 

Talent trade stuff is great and much needed, but if we can offer people on loan with nothing in return, which sounds great to me, the AI should also do the same when they want to/need to. Just my 2 cents.

 

The screens update is very very good, considering this game is made of a very heavy graphics community and it finally avoids having to go to a site, or file, to read the actual description of a universe.

 

Good stuff so far.

[Sharkn20]

I would like to have the ability to create my own gimmick with it's own benefits / risks as it's proposed, but also a built-in list that I can use when I don't fancy creating all the gimmicks myself, the best of both worlds!!

[Supermercado]

I'm for this gimmick change. Agree that an optional pre-set list would be good as well.

[Gregkendell86]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TLCJR4LIFE" data-cite="TLCJR4LIFE" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The optimization can only go so far, it’s really your hardware that’s going to affect that.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Not really I ran it on a p4 and on 2016 Gaming brand new laptop. When I got up to about 6 years. It was faster but not 10x faster. P4 I had to quit because it would take 30mins to load around 6years.</p>

[Munit]

Did adam clarify yet if hes leaning towards November or the other date for a release?

[Guest]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Gregkendell86" data-cite="Gregkendell86" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Not really I ran it on a p4 and on 2016 Gaming brand new laptop. When I got up to about 6 years. It was faster but not 10x faster. P4 I had to quit because it would take 30mins to load around 6years.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> What are the specs on the laptop. I’ve never had to wait more than 90 seconds for a day to load and i’ve had 20+ year watchers.</p>

[Jaysin]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Munit" data-cite="Munit" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Did adam clarify yet if hes leaning towards November or the other date for a release?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> April-July 2020</p>

[BuddyGarner]

<p>Some wrestling snobs would call it characters over gimmicks...</p><p> </p><p>

I guess that all matters on complexity.</p><p> </p><p>

If I have a 200 person roster I'm going to get sick of putting in gimmick names....</p><p> </p><p>

<strong>So I propose something like the AI suggests gimmick names based on the attributes you chose.</strong></p><p> </p><p>

These names would be set in the database as templates.</p>

[Hive]

<p>I would like to see this gimmick change tie in closely to alter egos.</p><p> </p><p>

A guy like Ric Flair never had an alter ego; his 'Nature boy' gimmick should be a great gimmick attributed to his person. Fans love it and you basically won't ever have to change anything but his face/heel disposition.</p><p> </p><p>

Then we have someone like The Undertaker; he should have a great gimmick tied to his 'The Undertaker' alter, which should be locked for WWF/E. If he goes somewhere else, they can't use this alter/gimmick and will have to come up with something new. This means that he probably won't straight away be as big of a star in, say WCW, TNA or AEW.</p><p> </p><p>

Then we have Dwayne Johnson. As a modmaker, I'd like to set a future alter ego called 'The Rock' for him with a fantastic gimmick rating - but I don't want him to be able to use it straight from his debut. So perhaps we tie requirementa into him using it - like 85 mic ability and 85 star power.</p><p> </p><p>

And then again, it should be possible to have future alter egos with a yet-to-be-decided gimmick rating.</p>

[Moe Hunter]

<p>"The Undertaker" has had a whole bunch of different gimmicks as The Undertaker, though. The most obvious changes being the 2000-2004 period affectionately known as "American Badass" or "Biker Taker".</p><p> </p><p>

Him not being able to use the name outside WWE wouldn't prevent him from getting over, nor using whatever gimmick he was running at the time.</p>

[SirMichaelJordan]

Also Rick Flair would just have a attribute of being a really good cool or cocky gimmick type.

[Eastwood]

...

[Chikbot]

<p>I'm completely fine with everyone having freestyle gimmicks that you can make yourself. Like sometimes, things are too generic and you don't wanna use the clone feature, plus in certain mods I've played. In certain companies, everyone has the same gimmick almost and that's boring and not how wrestling really is. </p><p> </p><p>

This is a great change forward and I can't wait to see it implimented</p>

[Hive]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Moe Hunter" data-cite="Moe Hunter" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>"The Undertaker" has had a whole bunch of different gimmicks as The Undertaker, though. The most obvious changes being the 2000-2004 period affectionately known as "American Badass" or "Biker Taker".<p> </p><p> Him not being able to use the name outside WWE wouldn't prevent him from getting over, nor using whatever gimmick he was running at the time.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I am aware that he also used a biker gimmick that, while successful, wasn't as successful as his deadman gimmick.</p><p> </p><p> And I completely disagree that he would get over as much and fast somewhere else without the deadman gimmick. Another company would have to come up with a new name/gimmick. Perhaps they could find a gimmick for him that would get just as over, perhaps not. But they'd have to venture into it. No way in hell would 'Mean' Mark Callous (his WCW name and gimmick) ever be as over as deadman Undertaker.</p>

[EBEZA]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="cappyboy" data-cite="cappyboy" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Gotta disagree with you here that Stone Cold barely had a gimmick. Dude was very much playing the Rebel gimmick. Playing it so fully and laying it on so thick, that at the time I couldn't necessarily take him seriously.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I strongly disagree here. Being a rebel is a character trait, rather than a gimmick. It can join the list of ass-kisser, cowardly heel, etc in that it's a trait that forms an important part of someone's character, but isn't a gimmick.</p><p> </p><p> Being a mortician, dentist, pornstar, pimp, censorship guy, prison guard, repo man, pirate, cult leader, etc... they're what I'd say count as gimmicks.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="cappyboy" data-cite="cappyboy" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Ultimately though this is the part that matters most for our purposes. And I'm right with you on this. Doing the new idea at the complete expense of the old system would seem to damaging to the game in the way dropping chained storylines was. Having some kind of balance would definitely seem best so as to allow the largest number of playstyles possible.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I only started with TEW 2016, can you explain chained storylines to me? In my head, it was a way of transitioning one storyline into another, possibly keeping some of the old storyline's momentum in the process?</p><p> </p><p> An example would be something like Shawn Spears smacking Cody with a chair at the end of his match in AEW recently. The old story Cody was in ended, and a new one with Spears began, but in TEW 2016 terms one would have to select for the old story to end during the match, do the angle, THEN start the Spears/Cody storyline at the next show, which isn't ideal...</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TheWho87" data-cite="TheWho87" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Secondly if the gimmick file was removed, how would another recently announced feature, the gimmick body types, work with this newer set up?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> This is a good question, I'd like to know this, too.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BuddyGarner" data-cite="BuddyGarner" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Some wrestling snobs would call it characters over gimmicks...</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I wouldn't call it being a snob, there is a difference between having a character and having a gimmick. See my comments above for what I believe that difference to be. </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Eastwood" data-cite="Eastwood" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It's essentially freestyle gimmicks and at this point freestyle angles are the only ones I use. They're far too versatile and flexible to go back to the old way.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Really? Interesting how different people play: I love the challenge of trying to work within the pre-designated angles with their pros and cons. Freestyle angles make it too easy, IMO, because you can play to everyone's strengths (or have them not rated if they have no strengths), set everyone to gain success from the angle, etc...</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Eastwood" data-cite="Eastwood" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>That said I still think a worker's gimmick should affect their Star Quality like a change of physique does. A bland and boring gimmick can totally make a talented worker look like a lesser star and likewise for a great one. If Steve Austin had been repackaged as Chilly McFreeze he would've been dead in the water.<p> </p><p> You could have it work where if a gimmick really catches on, it doesn't artificially boost their SQ beyond where it should be - it just brings it closer to it's max potential. Think of Mark Calaway in a late '80s mod: his SQ would be solid but nothing spectacular -- the high 70s perhaps. But if you package him as the Undertaker and he strikes gold it's now in the mid to high 80s. As he naturally develops as a worker over time his SQ could then continue to rise until it reaches his max.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> This is a good point, I would definitely like to see gimmick success tie-in with SQ!</p>

[FlameSnoopy]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="EBEZA" data-cite="EBEZA" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I strongly disagree here. Being a rebel is a character trait, rather than a gimmick. It can join the list of ass-kisser, cowardly heel, etc in that it's a trait that forms an important part of someone's character, but isn't a gimmick.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Stone Cold was definitely a 100% rebel gimmick in the beginning stages (once he/creative got the hang of it). Ass-kisser and cowardly heel are both gimmicks as well. Shaking hands and kissing the babies is a gimmick. Might not be a complex or an interesting character, let alone a creative gimmick, but it's still one. Everyone has a gimmick pretty much in wrestling (though not necessarily in puro/"pure" products, where these would often better be described as characters, exceptions to every rule). Gimmick and character are so different from each other, they shouldn't be mixed up. It's extremely common for the same character to use a number of different gimmicks.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="EBEZA" data-cite="EBEZA" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Being a mortician, dentist, pornstar, pimp, censorship guy, prison guard, repo man, pirate, cult leader, etc... they're what I'd say count as gimmicks.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Those are extremely gimmicky gimmicks.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="EBEZA" data-cite="EBEZA" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I only started with TEW 2016, can you explain chained storylines to me? In my head, it was a way of transitioning one storyline into another, possibly keeping some of the old storyline's momentum in the process?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Chained storylines were basically pre-built storylines with a number of steps you had to complete to advance the storyline. So for example, the chained storyline might've begun with Step 1 being a match where Wrestler A loses to Wrestler B. You must then book that match exactly like that, where Wrestler A gets the victory or else the storyline wouldn't advance (and you would have to do it all over again). In my opinion, chained storylines were well intentioned but didn't really run that smooth. However, a large minority used mostly chained storylines and were frustrated when they were completely removed, since in chained there was already a number of pre-built storylines that you could either run as is or simply be inspired by them.</p>