Matt_Black Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 World Champ & TNT champ- ex WWE wrestlers International Champ & Continental champ- ex NJPW wrestlers Women's Champ & TBS champ- ex WWE wrestlers The only homegrown champs right now are the EVPs and two nepo babies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalton Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Matt_Black said: World Champ & TNT champ- ex WWE wrestlers International Champ & Continental champ- ex NJPW wrestlers Women's Champ & TBS champ- ex WWE wrestlers The only homegrown champs right now are the EVPs and two nepo babies. This is the first time I've ever seen someone refer to Swerve Strickland as just an ex-WWE guy Edited May 27 by Dalton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_Black Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 46 minutes ago, Dalton said: This is the first time I've ever seen someone refer to Swerve Strickland as just an ex-WWE guy Was he in the WWE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 💀 (Sounds like the show was pretty good, I will check it out.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Roguey Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 7 hours ago, Matt_Black said: Was he in the WWE? who….who were you referring to as world champion then if it wasn’t swerve? also to edit in just in case i’ve misread, why does it matter where someone worked before and who holds what titles? with the rate of turnover in the wrestling business, everyone has pretty much worked everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juan_historico Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 (edited) Cody returns to WWE after years of being clearly misused there? it´s a clear sign that AEW isn´t doing a great job. Swerve after being FIRED with bearly time spend in the main roster gets the world title? AEW doesn´t have homegrow talent. As the catchphrase used to said, they doesen´t raise the Bar. They are The Bar. Edited May 27 by juan_historico 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sco xY2Jx Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 I love AEW. But it never feels like AEW really without MJF (and Omega). Wrestling is automatically more interesting and fun with MJF in the picture. Last night was great! That's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternal Phoenix Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 I don't understand the value being placed on homegrown talent. If a wrestler is good and the company can convince them to work for them instead of who they started with, how is that not a win? The main reasons to have homegrown talent are 1) to save money. Because there's a salary cap or the owner wants to not spend a lot of money. Neither of these things are true here. And 2) to hang on to young talent longer. But that's pro sports, where most guys are washed up by 35. Gotta keep churning the talent when the careers of even the greatest start in their early 20s and are all but over by 40. Modern pro wrestlers are often still going strong at 40, and how long guys can go before age catches up seems to be stretching in front of our eyes. It's not just AEW. Roman's 39. Drew is 38. Seth is 37. Barring injuries, they've got over half a decade left in them. Maybe longer if they choose. Hell, Mi is 43. Orton's 44. AJ Styles is 46. Cena's 47. Only one I've heard is about ready to retire is Cena. Orton was thinking about it after that last injury, but he's baaaack. So, you know. I don't understand the point. Genuinely great wrestlers have very long careers. With multiple companies available to work for, of course they're going to jump ship to the one they think suits them the best. Folks really trying to say that luring away top stars (or those with the potential to be top stars, in Swerve's case) from other companies and then using them as the top stars that they are is Bad, Actually. C'mon, man. If your hometown sports team managed to sign half the starting lineup of last year's All Star Game (whatever it's actually called) you'd celebrate. Why is AEW treated differently? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_Black Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 And that's a fair point. Swerve has gotten himself remarkably over, is a phenomenal in-ring wrestler and personality, and absolutely deserves it. Then there's Will Ospreay. If I were to make a "flippy ****" Create-A-Wrestler in a video game, there's a good chance it would look like him. He cuts promos like Bert from Mary Poppins is chewing on gravel. And then there's Mercedes. Not a good look for someone to walk right in and get a title in their first match with the company, especially given that just a few months ago AEW made a big deal about bringing back the rankings system and how "wins and losses matter". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lions Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 I don't know how you can watch Will Ospreay in 2024 and call him a "flippy CAW". You can like or dislike his promos, sure, but he's far from just a flippy spot guy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_Black Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 19 minutes ago, John Lions said: I don't know how you can watch Will Ospreay in 2024 and call him a "flippy CAW". You can like or dislike his promos, sure, but he's far from just a flippy spot guy. Well, what's compelling about him as a character? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lions Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 1 minute ago, Matt_Black said: Well, what's compelling about him as a character? What makes him a "flippy CAW"? I'm not here to make you like Will Ospreay or feel compelled to him as a character. I'm pointing out that you think he's a 1-note flippy wrestler when if you watch ANY of his matches in AEW (or any for the past couple years through NJPW and elsewhere), that it doesn't really describe him as a wrestler. You can like or dislike him, but you at least have to have your criticism based in fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_Black Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 20 minutes ago, John Lions said: What makes him a "flippy CAW"? I'm not here to make you like Will Ospreay or feel compelled to him as a character. I'm pointing out that you think he's a 1-note flippy wrestler when if you watch ANY of his matches in AEW (or any for the past couple years through NJPW and elsewhere), that it doesn't really describe him as a wrestler. You can like or dislike him, but you at least have to have your criticism based in fact. "I don't actually have an answer to your question, so I'm going to deflect." Ospreay is technically very sound in the ring. The issue is, there's no reason to give a crap. Especially in today's wrestling landscape, when everyone seems to have the gimmick of "I want to be the best WRESTLER". Now, look at Okada. He GETS it. Brilliant little mannerisms as a face or a heel, he's just phenomenal at what he does. The only criticism I have is that his finisher is remarkably underwhelming. A short-arm clothesline? Really? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lions Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 44 minutes ago, Matt_Black said: "I don't actually have an answer to your question, so I'm going to deflect." Ospreay is technically very sound in the ring. The issue is, there's no reason to give a crap. Especially in today's wrestling landscape, when everyone seems to have the gimmick of "I want to be the best WRESTLER". Now, look at Okada. He GETS it. Brilliant little mannerisms as a face or a heel, he's just phenomenal at what he does. The only criticism I have is that his finisher is remarkably underwhelming. A short-arm clothesline? Really? Last thing I will say on this. I'm not looking to have a conversation about how much you do or don't enjoy Ospreay. All I did was say that you're lazy criticism of Ospreay being a flippy spot monkey is just wrong if you actually watch any of his matches. You are repeating a talking point from wrestling media from half a decade ago. People can be critical, but if you are going to be critical, at least base in in reality! Your last couple points are actual thoughtful criticism of Ospreay, so props for that I guess. When I see someone commenting that Ospreay is just a flippy wrestler in an AEW thread in 2024, my first thought is that you aren't even actually watching the product - so why have a discussion with you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CQI13 Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 2 hours ago, Matt_Black said: And that's a fair point. Swerve has gotten himself remarkably over, is a phenomenal in-ring wrestler and personality, and absolutely deserves it. Then there's Will Ospreay. If I were to make a "flippy ****" Create-A-Wrestler in a video game, there's a good chance it would look like him. He cuts promos like Bert from Mary Poppins is chewing on gravel. And then there's Mercedes. Not a good look for someone to walk right in and get a title in their first match with the company, especially given that just a few months ago AEW made a big deal about bringing back the rankings system and how "wins and losses matter". Her promos are an even worse look. What made no sense to me is why the company makes this big to do about Mercedes...she does nothing of value for a month or however long...and then she goes for the SECONDARY belt? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_Black Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 1 hour ago, John Lions said: Last thing I will say on this. I'm not looking to have a conversation about how much you do or don't enjoy Ospreay. All I did was say that you're lazy criticism of Ospreay being a flippy spot monkey is just wrong if you actually watch any of his matches. You are repeating a talking point from wrestling media from half a decade ago. People can be critical, but if you are going to be critical, at least base in in reality! Your last couple points are actual thoughtful criticism of Ospreay, so props for that I guess. When I see someone commenting that Ospreay is just a flippy wrestler in an AEW thread in 2024, my first thought is that you aren't even actually watching the product - so why have a discussion with you? I do watch his matches. I don't sit in rapt attention because he is not very interesting to watch on any emotional level. And, given some of the TV ratings for his segments, it would appear that people not watching his matches are a problem for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternal Phoenix Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 (edited) I will say one more time that AEW may not be the promotion for you if you're expecting compelling storylines up and down the card. It may not be the promotion for you if you're expecting intricate, dazzling character work. This doesn't mean that they cannot whip those out on occasion or when needed. It means that AEW's focus is and largely always has been about the matches themselves. It's a company run by wrestling nerds, for heaven's sake. Not writers or business suits. And look, if you have trouble engaging with a promotion that uses storylines and character work primarily to set up damn fine to absolutely incredible wrestling matches, fair enough. Folks can criticize if they want. AEW's run by fallible humans. They're gonna make mistakes. But criticizing the style when it hasn't really ever changed doesn't work for me, brother. It's not an accident. There's clear intent behind the booking style. It cannot be said that it doesn't work five years, multiple huge TV deals, and several bombshell free agent signings into it. That's just...patently false and it genuinely annoys me when certain people leap on one bad week of ratings to proclaim AEW's doing everything wrong and drastic changes are needed immediately or the company will fail. Can we just chill, please? Is that allowed? WCW took much longer than a few weeks to fail, and arguably only did because the exec who liked it was replaced with one that didn't. TNA/Impact was hot garbage for multiple years, and is still here. AEW isn't gonna catastrophically collapse any time soon. Jeez. Edited May 28 by Eternal Phoenix 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FellaLibby Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 Lovely conversation you lads are having. And now for something completely different Can we all agree that Copeland really should've thought that top steel cage nothing through? I mean the spot was gnarly and something we don't often see. According to him, his mind panicked and he realized "I'm 50 years old and doing this!" In the heat of the moment, what do you think he should've done? Personally I'm with that he should've tried to splash Black, at best he probably would have a few bruised ribs but not a broken tibia. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CQI13 Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 3 hours ago, FellaLibby said: Lovely conversation you lads are having. And now for something completely different Can we all agree that Copeland really should've thought that top steel cage nothing through? I mean the spot was gnarly and something we don't often see. According to him, his mind panicked and he realized "I'm 50 years old and doing this!" In the heat of the moment, what do you think he should've done? Personally I'm with that he should've tried to splash Black, at best he probably would have a few bruised ribs but not a broken tibia. I clearly don’t know how this is done in real life. But shouldn’t some people be aware of these moves - especially major stunts at a big show. Or is that part of calling it on the fly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanX Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 I both loved and hated the flamethrower spot. We are using actual weapons now and stunt training the wrestlers with little margin for error, at the same time it was a very very cool, face delivered on his promise and actually used the weapon he brought during build-up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_Black Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 22 hours ago, Eternal Phoenix said: I will say one more time that AEW may not be the promotion for you if you're expecting compelling storylines up and down the card. It may not be the promotion for you if you're expecting intricate, dazzling character work. This doesn't mean that they cannot whip those out on occasion or when needed. It means that AEW's focus is and largely always has been about the matches themselves. It's a company run by wrestling nerds, for heaven's sake. Not writers or business suits. Well, now, that is simply not true. While AEW has more emphasis on matches than WWE, to say they don't focus on characters or stories is incorrect. From the start, you had Jericho, Omega, the Bucks, Cody, Hangman, MJF, Darby, PAC, Mox, and several others who were both great in-ring talents AND had personality to spare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mootinie Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 I think it's more that several of AEW's more recent storylines just haven't been hitting the right notes. They are there but are they working for us as viewers? The Jericho and Hook thing is definitely a story. The issue is that Hook isn't making me care about it. He's phoning it in and Jericho simply cannot milk blood from a stone. They turned the Best Friends Breakup into a Don Callis recruitment campaign and I no longer cared to see either of them fight one another. They put Takeshita in an eliminator match for a New Japan title, booking I didn't like in the first place. But then he lost! And it was an awful finish, just really bad stuff all around... There are good things in AEW of course. Ospreay versus Strong ruled even though the build was a bit light. The Trios title match was super strong even though it could have done with more TV build but both matches still had their narratives. Swerve vs. Christian worked for me. The build being about Swerve's past sins was really really cool and felt like a reward for me having paid attention in the past. I liked The New Elite stuff and thought Anarchy In The Arena was the match of the night. Mercedes versus Willow was great. The contract signing skit was fantastic. "I walked out as Champion and you didn't walk out at all" was a wicked zinger. Willow has been elevated by the whole thing, she cut two or three promos in the build to this match that absolutely ruled. That storyline worked and both of the talents have new directions now. But yeah, most definitely, some of it hasn't been working for me and I am definitely looking forward to a new cycle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Machine Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 (edited) On 5/28/2024 at 2:50 PM, Eternal Phoenix said: It's a company run by wrestling nerds, for heaven's sake. Not writers or business suits. 🤝 Edited May 29 by Wrestling Machine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 20 hours ago, FellaLibby said: Lovely conversation you lads are having. And now for something completely different Can we all agree that Copeland really should've thought that top steel cage nothing through? I mean the spot was gnarly and something we don't often see. According to him, his mind panicked and he realized "I'm 50 years old and doing this!" In the heat of the moment, what do you think he should've done? Personally I'm with that he should've tried to splash Black, at best he probably would have a few bruised ribs but not a broken tibia. Heat of the moment? Do the spot. The spot was planned. The bed was made. Time to lay in it. Before the match? Dumb spot. Don't do it. Have the sense to know that it's not worth it. A disappointing lack of self awareness from someone who has been around long enough to know better. Or does he think the stunts are what made him a top guy? The TLC matches and the Foley match were big parts of his career, sure, but... You would think that veterans would know they have more to offer than that. If he hadn't broken something, no one would remember that bump in a month. Fans have seen it all before. Watching it is no big deal, but doing it still is. So why do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milamber Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 - Rosa vs Deonna - Should have been a TV main event instead of a PPV pre-show. - *** 1/2 - Cage of Agony vs Assclaimed - Wrong team won. - ** 3/4 - Ospreay vs Roddy (c) - Nice break from the usual Ospreay finisher kickout spam. **** 1/4 - Baybay! MJF in street clothes! Electric promo. - Death Triangle vs BBG (c) - The Juice is loose. - *** 3/4 - Deeb vs Toni (c) - Happy they got plenty of time. - **** 1/4 - Trent vs Cassidy - Trent off to NJPW? - *** 3/4 - HOOK vs Shibata vs Jericho (c) - Dice! Fun but didn't need to be on PPV. *** 1/2 - Takeshita vs Mox (c) - Injury angle was in service of the storyline but weakened the in-ring action. Take should have won. - *** 3/4 - Black vs Copeland (c) Cage Match - Bloodbath. Gangrel! - **** - Mone vs Willow (c) - Special entrance treatment for the CEO. She looked sharp after a year out and no tuneup matches. The turn finally happened! - **** 1/2 - Christian vs Swerve (c) - Obvious outcome but they worked hard. - **** 1/4 - Anarchy in the Arena - Fun but messy match. Needed split screen to catch more of the action. Final Countdown! Scapegoat truck! Jack on fire! Darby pinata! - **** Consistently good but average PPV by AEW standards. Overstayed its welcome. Cutting the Jericho match would have helped with pacing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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