Age is just a number attribute discussion

[Totalwarfare2020]

I personally think everyone should have this attribute in the game. Why? Because people over 65 are sitting there waiting to die. They have nothing left to offer the game. I have always thought this was ageism in the game. Vince McMahon and jim ross clearly have more to give to the game.

 

What do you think?

[ConcutioCaelum]

Both examples are people who have clearly seen their skills declining for years. Now how quickly/slowly that might be is up for debate.

 

Age Is Just A Number is meant for people like Ric Flair, someone who wrestled well into his fifties and was still performing at a higher level than most other competitors. Time caught up with him though.

[Jaysin]

Vince and JR both should have retired long ago.

[Capelli King]

I think it should be a combination of age, current skills and also if they are getting employment or not. In the case of Vince, he is the owner, so he could (and should) be around until he basically dies.

[tryker2710]

McMahon and JR have more to give that's for sure but neither are able to perform anywhere near the level they could 10-20 years ago. Jim Ross has put in some extremely poor commentary over the last 5 years especially and Vince McMahon can't talk the way he could at the height of his popularity in 98-00.

[D-Lyrium]

Is relevancy even affected by this attribute? I don't have the game in front of me so I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure it just affects physical decline, not relevency. So apart from giving two of the worst examples possible, it wouldn't fix your issue anyway.

[Cyhort]

Vince is more out of touch than he's ever been, WTF are you talking about? He should have retired ten years ago.

[awesomenessofme1]

I'm assuming you mean Ahead Of Their Time, which I think is too generous for the examples you've given.

[Makhai]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jaysin" data-cite="Jaysin" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="48904" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Vince and JR both should have retired long ago.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Vince, yes. JR? He's the second-best PBP guy in the business behind Mauro, still think he's got some time left in the tank, but he's gotta find a color guy who's quicker on his toes and can banter with him better. Heyman and Lawler are both prime examples in style. Right now AEW have 3 PBP guys and no color guys and that's why Jericho stuck out so well when he worked with Shavs a couple of weeks ago. It was like "OH, a proper booth dynamic, what a concept".</p>

[vladjarca]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ConcutioCaelum" data-cite="ConcutioCaelum" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="48904" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Both examples are people who have clearly seen their skills declining for years. Now how quickly/slowly that might be is up for debate.<p> </p><p> Age Is Just A Number is meant for people like Ric Flair, someone who wrestled well into his fifties and was still performing at a higher level than most other competitors. Time caught up with him though.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> *Laughs in Minoru Suzuki*</p>

[Makhai]

*Laughs in Minoru Suzuki*

 

I've made this point a 1000 times now, but Everybody on the top 100 list is in there mid-40s. pretty much. Jericho is starting to physically break down a bit, but he's still a ME level performer cresting 50. As the lifestyles have improved, so too has the longevity of careers. The peak is 40 now. Not 30.

[vladjarca]

I've made this point a 1000 times now, but Everybody on the top 100 list is in there mid-40s. pretty much. Jericho is starting to physically break down a bit, but he's still a ME level performer cresting 50. As the lifestyles have improved, so too has the longevity of careers. The peak is 40 now. Not 30.

 

I wouldn't go as far as saying as the average peak is 40, I'd say the peak is still around 34-37 for most of the guys. Of course, there are Suzuki, Jericho, Rey Mysterio that still go hard despite their age, but that's surely not the norm, guys like Cena, Triple H, Batista, RVD, AJ, Samoa Joe, Christopher Daniels aged/are ageing more normally.

[Jaysin]

Vince, yes. JR? He's the second-best PBP guy in the business behind Mauro, still think he's got some time left in the tank, but he's gotta find a color guy who's quicker on his toes and can banter with him better. Heyman and Lawler are both prime examples in style. Right now AEW have 3 PBP guys and no color guys and that's why Jericho stuck out so well when he worked with Shavs a couple of weeks ago. It was like "OH, a proper booth dynamic, what a concept".

 

Tony is better than JR.

 

JR hasn't been good in at least a decade. He doesn't know the wrestlers or their moves. He's so out of touch with today's product. He's just not good and I just assume that anyone who says otherwise is using nostalgia to justify it.

[ubernoob]

Vince, yes. JR? He's the second-best PBP guy in the business behind Mauro, still think he's got some time left in the tank, but he's gotta find a color guy who's quicker on his toes and can banter with him better. Heyman and Lawler are both prime examples in style. Right now AEW have 3 PBP guys and no color guys and that's why Jericho stuck out so well when he worked with Shavs a couple of weeks ago. It was like "OH, a proper booth dynamic, what a concept".

 

Mauro is awful at wrestling commentary and JR is worse.

[Cyhort]

Tony is better than JR.

 

JR hasn't been good in at least a decade. He doesn't know the wrestlers or their moves. He's so out of touch with today's product. He's just not good and I just assume that anyone who says otherwise is using nostalgia to justify it.

 

Man, the hot takes are scorching...

 

JR is not out of touch with today's product. Xcalibur is the knowledge guy on the AEW commentary team, JR feeds him lines so he can explain things people need to know. When JR does talk about the AEW wrestlers, he knows what he's talking about. The problem with the AEW commentary desk is, like someone said above, there are three play by play guys. Sometimes, they all talk over each other trying to do play by play, and JR, being the oldest, sometimes comes off slower when they do that. But to say JR hasn't been good for a decade just shows you don't know much about commentary. Or, more likely, are just parroting the current cool smark wrestling opinion.

[Matt_Black]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Cyhort" data-cite="Cyhort" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="48904" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Man, the hot takes are scorching...<p> </p><p> JR is not out of touch with today's product. Xcalibur is the knowledge guy on the AEW commentary team, JR feeds him lines so he can explain things people need to know. When JR does talk about the AEW wrestlers, he knows what he's talking about. The problem with the AEW commentary desk is, like someone said above, there are three play by play guys. Sometimes, they all talk over each other trying to do play by play, and JR, being the oldest, sometimes comes off slower when they do that. But to say JR hasn't been good for a decade just shows you don't know much about commentary. Or, more likely, are just parroting the current cool smark wrestling opinion.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yeah. Listen to his work for NJPW or the Mae Young Classic. Was it as good as JR in his prime? No. Did he do a good job? Yeah.</p>

[Jaysin]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Cyhort" data-cite="Cyhort" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="48904" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Man, the hot takes are scorching...<p> </p><p> JR is not out of touch with today's product. Xcalibur is the knowledge guy on the AEW commentary team, JR feeds him lines so he can explain things people need to know. When JR does talk about the AEW wrestlers, he knows what he's talking about. The problem with the AEW commentary desk is, like someone said above, there are three play by play guys. Sometimes, they all talk over each other trying to do play by play, and JR, being the oldest, sometimes comes off slower when they do that. But to say JR hasn't been good for a decade just shows you don't know much about commentary. Or, more likely, are just parroting the current cool smark wrestling opinion.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> JR has been messing up the names of moves since he was on commentary with Taz on Smackdown. I don't care if it's trendy to dislike JR either, I just find him insufferable on commentary. Tony is much better and has been a breath of fresh air on commentary. AEW is the only product I watch regularly these days since NWA is on hold, but JR just isn't good anymore. </p><p> </p><p> I like JR the person and he's one of my favorite personalities in wrestling outside of commentary.</p>

[Makhai]

JR has been messing up the names of moves since he was on commentary with Taz on Smackdown. I don't care if it's trendy to dislike JR either, I just find him insufferable on commentary. Tony is much better and has been a breath of fresh air on commentary. AEW is the only product I watch regularly these days since NWA is on hold, but JR just isn't good anymore.

 

I like JR the person and he's one of my favorite personalities in wrestling outside of commentary.

 

I thought he was phenomenal in NJPW other than spending way too much time trying to educate "new viewers" at 3 in the morning for the WK shows he did. There was one match involving the Bucks where he buried them oddly. Everything else was easily explainable by the fact he wasn't getting production queues, drops, or direction. He was completely off the seat of his pants. And was vastly superior to Kevin Kelly who does it now. I think the people who are hating on JR right now are people who can't see him as anything other than the 90s cartoon version. BYE_GHAWD! HE BROKEN IN HALF! AUSTIN! AUSTIN! AUSTIN! He's older now, he's mellowed out. That's ok. You want that guy? Mauro is that turned to 11 and broke off.

[KD637]

JR's commentary on Hager vs Mox was meh to say the least.

And he keeps throwing the line "Winning means money and people want to win so they get more money"

Still have great love for him though, think hes better as the steering hand than as the front of house.

 

Jericho and Schiavone thought.... WOW. More than making up for the plethora of squash jobber matches on dynamite at the moment.

[Self]

I've made this point a 1000 times now, but Everybody on the top 100 list is in there mid-40s. pretty much. Jericho is starting to physically break down a bit, but he's still a ME level performer cresting 50. As the lifestyles have improved, so too has the longevity of careers. The peak is 40 now. Not 30.

 

I think physical decline is in the exact right place. The top wrestlers in the world are the top guys because of their psychology and charisma and experience, which don't go away. Chris Jericho looks slow and lumbering to me now. Athletically his matches are among the worst in the company. However, the crowd reacts because of psychology, charisma, experience, and how over he gets himself and his storylines. Depending on your product, that's how TEW works.

 

There are VERY few guys 40+ you can point to who are as athletically gifted than they were a decade ago. TEW maps that correctly. That's only part of the puzzle though. Time Decline isn't the death sentence. It's the cruel irony of life; that when you really figure out how to start using your body, it's already breaking down.

[cwamaniac]

<p>Decline dates are somewhat debatable</p><p> </p><p>

For example I can say someone like the undertaker is in decline and few would disagree with me as in Tew terms he’d likely be in terminal decline but if I said AJ Styles was in decline I’d likely get more disagreements as he would not be terminally in decline if he was in decline </p><p> </p><p>

The attribute in my eyes is for workers who never really entered terminal decline</p><p>

People like flair, terry funk, Dustin Rhodes, HHH, etc, I get what you mean though about age 65 being too strict a cutoff mark, but if I remember correctly it’s there to help the game run smoother rather any other arbitrary reason </p><p> </p><p>

In a perfect world there would be no cutoff for mandatory retirement as it’s not really a thing in real life, heck hulk hogan allegedly kept trying to talk to wwe in doing a return match at his age lol, if that happened you can guarantee it’ll get more attention than say a 205 Main Event even if the 205 match is much better in quality, or in a cornellverse example Sam Strong could exit retirement and wrestle Tyson Bain’s in USPW probably get a better score than say Greg gauge vs Matthew Keith</p>

[vladjarca]

Mauro is awful at wrestling commentary and JR is worse.

 

Mauro is quite divisive, but I wouldn't call him awful by any means

[ubernoob]

Mauro is quite divisive, but I wouldn't call him awful by any means

 

Just his wrestling commentary really. I grew up on him in PRIDE and boxing. And I fall on the "He's awful at wrestling commentary" side of the divisive line.

 

I'm sure it's not his fault, but the end result is still the same: I don't wanna listen to him, so I don't. It's the same thing with Cole. I respect Cole and think he's actually decent at his job, but WWE produces them so awfully that there's not really anything they can do to come out of it looking good.

[Remianen]

I personally think everyone should have this attribute in the game. Why? Because people over 65 are sitting there waiting to die. They have nothing left to offer the game. I have always thought this was ageism in the game. Vince McMahon and jim ross clearly have more to give to the game.

 

What do you think?

 

I think you're totally misunderstanding the attribute. It's meant for the truly exceptional workers who are able to stave off the effects of age to a certain extent. Odd that you think everyone is exceptional but if that's the case, then no one should have the attribute (if everyone is exceptional, no one is).

 

There's a simpler way to do what you appear to want. Max out everyone's decline and relevancy age. Or, hire and push/promote those people.