eayragt Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 I just don't see how Cody "jobbing" to The Rock is a bad thing. It sets up a future match, he's still mega hot after becoming a champion. If Cody wins Night 1 he's still massively over, but people are meh about a future match with Rocky as it doesn't have the build. Sure, you may doubt he's the best as the thought is that someone could beat him but... that's sort of the point? If you've got a champion who you don't think can lose, why do you watch? I'm not interested in Jay Vs Priest as I know Priest will win, but I'll be interested if it's McIntyre Vs Priest at Clash the following month as I don't know who'll win that. A lot of other stuff mentioned over the last decade did indeed suck, but Kofi getting squashed is incomparable to an epic, tainted defeat in a part one match, which will lead to a future match. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willr0ck Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 (edited) Unless you are enhancement talent in a sqaush match losing to The Rock should never be considered "jobbing". There is nothing wrong with losing to one of the most popular megastars in the history of pro wrestling as long as you look good in the process. IMO neither Cody, nor Seth were made to look weak in that match. Top guys fight other top guys at big events, someone has to lose and someone has to win. On a funnier note, I watched the replay of Mania to see what I missed being there live. Am I the only one who found it hilarious that the Bayley/Iyo match had ads for butt wipes for dudes plastered everywhere? To think that all these years I've been using gender nonspecific toilet paper. Edited April 10 by willr0ck 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Swanton825 Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 They booked that pretty much like Dusty booked his main events. That man was so fond of overbooked finishes that you'd think we would have named a specific type of finish after him... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthetop2 Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 (edited) 12 hours ago, willr0ck said: Unless you are enhancement talent in a sqaush match losing to The Rock should never be considered "jobbing". Well I think the guy you're trying to push as the best wrestler in the company should not be getting pinned by someone who hasn't wrestled a proper match in 11 years and hasn't been a full time competitor in over 20. I don't care how big The Rock used to be, a wrestler losing to someone who is no longer a wrestler just makes them look bad. Edited April 10 by overthetop2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blonde Bomber Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 Everyone is entitled to their opinions. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 6 hours ago, overthetop2 said: Well I think the guy you're trying to push as the best wrestler in the company should not be getting pinned by someone who hasn't wrestled a proper match in 11 years and hasn't been a full time competitor in over 20. I don't care how big The Rock used to be, a wrestler losing to someone who is no longer a wrestler just makes them look bad. I partially agree. I don't take it to those extremes, but there's something about returning legends or celebrities or 'part timers' coming in and instantly destroying the current roster that makes the sport (the fictional sport that exists in the reality of the show) look bad. Or at least, worse. Goldberg's done it a bunch. Logan Paul instantly being a world beater. CM Punk returning after X years away and becoming AEW World Champion so quickly. It rubs me the wrong way. I believe in ring rust. I believe that if you stop doing something, you lose a certain spark. I guess I want to believe that there's a reason that WWE superstars (in the fictional reality of the show) fight so often. It's to keep their skills sharp and stay ahead of the game. They're like sharks. If they stop swimming they die. But maybe I'm wrong in this thinking. MMA is structured differently. Fight camps are the real way to get people ready for a fight. Those damn Paul brothers keep succeeding in things thanks to (I assume) proper training and expensive trainers. Maybe if companies showed this (kayfabe) preparation side it might help. Rock didn't just wander in. He's been at the Bloodline's Fight Pit, running drills with Solo and Jimmy Uso, rediscovering his spark. I do think Cody/Rocky is a good money match to set up for the future, although I didn't personally love the finish they did in the tag match. Kinda slow. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanX Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 12 minutes ago, Self said: But maybe I'm wrong in this thinking. MMA is structured differently. Fight camps are the real way to get people ready for a fight. Those damn Paul brothers keep succeeding in things thanks to (I assume) proper training and expensive trainers. Maybe if companies showed this (kayfabe) preparation side it might help. Rock didn't just wander in. He's been at the Bloodline's Fight Pit, running drills with Solo and Jimmy Uso, rediscovering his spark. It's such a cool idea - Rock training with bloodline members or a Samoan style training montage of some sorts, it would have been really fun. Though if you think about it - Rock in and out of his character was talking about his in-ring preparation for a long time now, he even proved his abilities against Jinder, a former world champion, by taking him out. You add his character to the mix - being a Hollywood action star, CEO of WWE, his past record at WM and his credentials as a wrestler - at least kayfabe wise, he had tonnes of resources and time for preparation. It's certainly plausible that he was good enough to hang with the top guys, at least alongside someone like Reigns. Agree about the match, night 1 match felt janky to say the least but screw it, night 2 main event more than made up for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 41 minutes ago, Self said: Logan Paul instantly being a world beater. Just wanted to chime in on this one as Logan's record in big matches was actually in the negatives before he won the US title. I agree with the other examples you gave but was wondering what about his presentation bothered you in this sense as there are quite a few things to dislike about him but after he started off 2 and 0 beating Dom Mysterio and Miz he lost about 4 big matches in a row so his power balancing is not really one of them imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Dawn said: Just wanted to chime in on this one as Logan's record in big matches was actually in the negatives before he won the US title. I agree with the other examples you gave but was wondering what about his presentation bothered you in this sense as there are quite a few things to dislike about him but after he started off 2 and 0 beating Dom Mysterio and Miz he lost about 4 big matches in a row so his power balancing is not really one of them imo If you're competing in WWE, then you are (in theory) one of the greatest fighters in the world who has risen through the ranks to make it to the grandest stage of them all. The NFL has the best football players. WWE has the best combat sports specialists. From Cody to Miz to Dom to Joe McNXT. All better scrappers than the lads down the local pub. That's the central conceit of the show. So for any celebrity to come in and not lose in 5 seconds to anyone on the roster... that's where it starts to bother me. For Logan specifically, that stance has softened. Originally I thought he was just a Youtube celebrity, but he's done combat sports, fights, etc, that give him more legitimacy. Enough to beat Dom, sure. Miz? Maybe. But he lasted longer than 5 minutes against Roman Reigns. That bothered me. In the same way Goldberg beating The Fiend bothered me. But it's much like the Rock thing. My brain has been set up to believe repetition equals mastery, and that the only way to become the best fighter in the world is to have many, many fights on live TV and PPV. And that's not really reality. I should also note I've watched very little of Logan Paul's stuff. I don't habitually watch WWE. My feelings are just based on reading and hearing about things happening. Feelings based on concepts more than execution. Edited April 10 by Self Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthetop2 Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 (edited) 2 hours ago, Self said: So for any celebrity to come in and not lose in 5 seconds to anyone on the roster... that's where it starts to bother me. For Logan specifically, that stance has softened. Originally I thought he was just a Youtube celebrity, but he's done combat sports, fights, etc, that give him more legitimacy. Enough to beat Dom, sure. Miz? Maybe. But he lasted longer than 5 minutes against Roman Reigns. That bothered me. I don't mind a good "heel gets more than they bargained for" angle if it's handled properly. The heels are usually those who cheated their way to the top rather than earn their spot legitimately, so it's easier to believe that a celebrity turned wannabe fighter could get the jump on their overconfident opponent. The caveat is that the heel should always eventually get their heat back and win clean, unless you want to run an angle where a face that has been tormented for weeks gets revenge by costing them the match. In the latter case, this has to be a particularly strong interference and not just a distraction, otherwise the heel still looks bad. Regarding your greater point, the best in the world in almost any sport work hard to reach and maintain a standard that no average person could match even with years of practice, and that should also be reflected in a wrestling promotion being presented as world level. So yes, it should take a while for someone who was a world beater to get back to that point if they've been out for a while. That means The Rock in WWE's case. And even though CM Punk started his AEW run fighting midcarders instead of going for the title right away, I agree that another loss or two on the way to the title would've made more sense from a realistic storytelling perspective. Edited April 10 by overthetop2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_Black Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 On 4/9/2024 at 1:51 PM, willr0ck said: Top guys fight other top guys at big events, someone has to lose and someone has to win. Unless Vince is in charge. He's the guy who had the main event of Hell In A Cell end in a no-contest two years in a row. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willr0ck Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 On 4/10/2024 at 2:44 AM, overthetop2 said: Well I think the guy you're trying to push as the best wrestler in the company should not be getting pinned by someone who hasn't wrestled a proper match in 11 years and hasn't been a full time competitor in over 20. I don't care how big The Rock used to be, a wrestler losing to someone who is no longer a wrestler just makes them look bad. Well we can agree to disagree on that point. Everyone has an opinion and none of us are right or wrong when it comes to a wrestling discussion. The E has done plenty of stuff I've hated over the years, I just happened to enjoy the two matches and how they played out. 9 hours ago, Matt_Black said: Unless Vince is in charge. He's the guy who had the main event of Hell In A Cell end in a no-contest two years in a row. Ugh, I forgot about some of that stuff. Thanks for the reminder. I kind of checked out once Bryan Danielson left for a few years, all those bad Vince decisions are kind of a blur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CQI13 Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 On 4/10/2024 at 9:43 AM, SanX said: It's such a cool idea - Rock training with bloodline members or a Samoan style training montage of some sorts, it would have been really fun. Though if you think about it - Rock in and out of his character was talking about his in-ring preparation for a long time now, he even proved his abilities against Jinder, a former world champion, by taking him out. You add his character to the mix - being a Hollywood action star, CEO of WWE, his past record at WM and his credentials as a wrestler - at least kayfabe wise, he had tonnes of resources and time for preparation. It's certainly plausible that he was good enough to hang with the top guys, at least alongside someone like Reigns. Agree about the match, night 1 match felt janky to say the least but screw it, night 2 main event more than made up for it. Didn’t they say he had a 6 week camp with Gallus or some group in NXT? I guess you would film the vignettes with The Bloodline, but it was acknowledged that he didn’t just come back and take the match having not trained. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyver3 Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 I definitely remember commentary mentioning a couple times he did a 6 week camp in preparation for the match don’t remember who they mentioned was there but they brought it up 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysin Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 I read that the Rock trained with the Gallus boys with Bobby Roode and Chad Patton helping with the non physical stuff. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CQI13 Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 So Jimmy is out of the Bloodline, Solo has taken over ans Tribal Chief, and Tama Tonga debuted. All the while, with Heyman as a reluctant member/caught in the crossfire. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisma Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 6 hours ago, CQI13 said: So Jimmy is out of the Bloodline, Solo has taken over ans Tribal Chief, and Tama Tonga debuted. All the while, with Heyman as a reluctant member/caught in the crossfire. I have only seen clips, so far. Was it implied that The Rock is the Tribal Chief and Solo is just acting on his behalf? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mootinie Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 If defeats have consequences, how is Solo Sikoa still in The Bloodline when he's like 0-37 since the Saudi show? He literally has not won a match since beating John Cena... https://www.cagematch.net/?id=2&nr=22525&page=4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinoKea Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 41 minutes ago, Mootinie said: If defeats have consequences, how is Solo Sikoa still in The Bloodline when he's like 0-37 since the Saudi show? He literally has not won a match since beating John Cena... https://www.cagematch.net/?id=2&nr=22525&page=4 This is a misleading statistic 30 of those matches were Dark Matches and House Shows which shouldn't count to any reasonable record 1 was a No Contest RAW 01/04/2024 vs. Seth Rollins (Bloodline Rules) 3 of those loss were by DQ Smackdown 15/12/2023 vs. AJ Styles Smackdown 26/01/2024 vs. LA Knight Smackdown 05/04/2024 vs. Jey Uso 2 were tag team match Smackdown 08/12/2024 vs. LA Knight & Randy Orton (Jimmy Uso pinned by Orton) Smackdown 12/01/2024 vs. AJ Styles, LA Knight & Randy Orton (3 v 2 Handicap, Jimmy Uso pinned by Orton) And finally 1 pinfall loss Smackdown 19/01/2024 vs. Randy Orton Which means of Solo Sikoa's 3 clean televised losses, 2 of them were because Jimmy Uso got pinned. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CQI13 Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 1 hour ago, Sisma said: I have only seen clips, so far. Was it implied that The Rock is the Tribal Chief and Solo is just acting on his behalf? Hard to tell from the highlights posted. Heyman appeared still loyal to Roman to the point he was being intimidated by Solo. One could speculate that The Rock could still be the one calling the shots because when Kayla’s interview of Heyman was interrupted by Tama Tonga, he tells Heyman it was by orders of the Tribal Chief. When Rock came back and they showed that family tree, wasn’t he listed as “Head of the Table”? Either way, I am intrigued. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisma Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 24 minutes ago, CQI13 said: Hard to tell from the highlights posted. Heyman appeared still loyal to Roman to the point he was being intimidated by Solo. One could speculate that The Rock could still be the one calling the shots because when Kayla’s interview of Heyman was interrupted by Tama Tonga, he tells Heyman it was by orders of the Tribal Chief. When Rock came back and they showed that family tree, wasn’t he listed as “Head of the Table”? Either way, I am intrigued. Absolutely, me too! A lot of people have speculated that this will lead to a ''Bloodline Civil War'' and I gotta say, I love the idea. War Games between Roman / Usos and Solo / Tama Tonga / Jacob Fatu (?) and the culmination, of course, Rock vs Roman at Mania 41. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mootinie Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 1 hour ago, DinoKea said: This is a misleading statistic So, instead of being 0-37, he's actually 0-1-36. Or 0-1-6 if House Shows don't count... Brother, that's still an absolutely awful record. 😂 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CQI13 Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 6 hours ago, Mootinie said: So, instead of being 0-37, he's actually 0-1-36. Or 0-1-6 if House Shows don't count... Brother, that's still an absolutely awful record. 😂 Are we counting Solo and Jimmy as a Unit? Or Individuals? Because a lot of times in the groups there is the guy that eats all the pins in tag/multi man matches. Seems like Jimmy was the one taking the hit and he was being protected. So 0-1-1 with 6 matches that he didn’t factor into the decision in - and since Jimmy can’t carry his weight, he is out. 🙃 I wonder how the Usos will hug it out and make up. Whatever they decide to do, it’s for the best. They are not singles guys at a top level. But they are a top level tag team. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinoKea Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 Just watching NXT and just want to double check I've got this right: The D'Angelo Family and No Quarter Catch Crew are starting a feud over missing payments for the murder of Drew Gulak 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_Black Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 A main event ending in a disqualification? The Paul Levesque Era looks a LOT like the Vince McMahon Era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.