The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[hellshock70]

You know, I almost forgot about Ezekiel Jackson... and you know what? I've always liked the guy. Could be a HUGE monster heel if the WWE ever actually put some effort into it. That said, after they screwed up booking Kozlov (and The Big Show on a weekly basis), I don't think the WWE knows HOW to push a monster anymore.

 

That said, THIS is all the evidence I need as to why a certain someone SHOULD be the top black superstar in wrestling today:

 

 

btw, c-bot! have you checked your pm's?

 

Yep, they could have done a lot more with him. I liked his last gimmick.

[Comradebot]

btw, c-bot! have you checked your pm's?

 

OH, yeah, I'll reply to that... hehe... been distracted.

[Genadi]

That's part of why I think Sapp could've been such a big deal...

 

Agreed, first time I saw footage of him in MMA in Japan my jaw dropped. If WCW didn't self destruct we could've seen him tear it up there.

[Moe Hunter]

Guamanian or Chamorro

 

As in like, people from Guam? Either way...

 

a) Awesome word. I'm going to have to start using it!

b) Are Guamanians really that common in America?

[hellshock70]

As in like, people from Guam? Either way...

 

a) Awesome word. I'm going to have to start using it!

b) Are Guamanians really that common in America?

 

In Guam as far as I know. LOL

 

If I've ever encountered someone from Guam then I never even knew it.

 

There can't be too many as the island is only 212 square miles making it less then half the size of the county I live in and there has to be enough room for tourists to vacation since that is their main source of income.

[Linsolv]

I like MVP because ..if you're going to build a star..he's got the most relatable and realistic gimmick and his real life backstory makes him marketable as a role model. For the kids.

 

Het him a new finisher and an Under Armour sponsorship and he's set!

 

I know, this happened like forever ago, but I hate MVP. First, his finisher is completely unconvincing, and leaves me wondering why doing a "ballin" motion should make a relatively standard elbow SO devastating. And also why the other person doesn't recover during the million years it takes for MVP to run around like a retard and then throw an imaginary ball. At least when Cena does it, it's clearly separated into "taunt, then finisher."

 

Secondly, he's pretty much only a bunch of black stereotypes. His only marketable traits are that he likes basketball and that he was in prison? Really? That'd be like if you brought over someone from NJPW and gave them the gimmick that they were only good at math, and couldn't please a woman in bed.

 

(Also, I just read Zeel1's recap, and I realised -- what, was Over the Limit like, "face goes over heel" night? The only match the face didn't win was Orton/Edge and that's because the face dislocated his shoulder while he was doing a darned taunt!)

[CQI13]

Same reason why few people ever got up during the People's Elbow or any other ridiculous finisher.

[Self]

There was a point where MVP could have been a top star, but he's not there now. Not to say he can't fight and claw his way back to megastar potential, but barring a Punk/Batista/Jericho level character reinvention, he's been midcard too long. He's stale.

 

His finisher is one of the worst moves ever invented (although he recently stole Shelton's Pay Dirt Downward Spiral thing) but I like the ballin' elbow. I don't think the taunt is supposed to make it more devastating, it's just a fun little taunt to get the crowd participating and add some flair to a match.

[MrOnu]

I know, this happened like forever ago, but I hate MVP. First, his finisher is completely unconvincing, and leaves me wondering why doing a "ballin" motion should make a relatively standard elbow SO devastating. And also why the other person doesn't recover during the million years it takes for MVP to run around like a retard and then throw an imaginary ball. At least when Cena does it, it's clearly separated into "taunt, then finisher."

 

Isn't the Playmaker his finisher though ? Not that he won anything meaningful lately and needed a finisher...

[PeterHilton]

I know, this happened like forever ago, but I hate MVP. First, his finisher is completely unconvincing, and leaves me wondering why doing a "ballin" motion should make a relatively standard elbow SO devastating. And also why the other person doesn't recover during the million years it takes for MVP to run around like a retard and then throw an imaginary ball. At least when Cena does it, it's clearly separated into "taunt, then finisher."

 

WTF? People's Elbow...?

 

Secondly, he's pretty much only a bunch of black stereotypes. His only marketable traits are that he likes basketball and that he was in prison? Really? That'd be like if you brought over someone from NJPW and gave them the gimmick that they were only good at math, and couldn't please a woman in bed.

 

Don't take this the wrong way..but you sound like you might be a wee bit out of touch with pop culture here. Kind of dorky, actually.

 

He's playing off the archetype of today's athlete. He's got the bodysuit which is supposed to be like the Under Aarmour/Nike work out gear. He use to rock the eye black and the doo rag and the breath-right strip. He came out under the inflatable entranceway like in football. Did a big dance at the top of the ramp..had gold..an agent...talked about being a high priced free agent.

 

Also..he doesn't "like basketball"..he's mimmicking the "ballin" move that got red-hot because of the Jim Jones song of the same name that came out a few years ago. That song was all over the goddamned place and blew up so big that pro athletes started doing the move.

 

Here's the NY Giants during their Super Bowl year:

 

 

He was like the WWE's spin on Ray Lewis. Not only was it a cool gimmick, but it was original and current. First time in a long time where the E booked a believable ethnic character.

 

(and going to jail at 16 is a marketable trait if you can show that he turned his life around, changed his ways, and made something of himself. which he has.)

[-laz-]

the miz fights like a girl i have photographic proof

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v194/-Laz-/mizisagirl.jpg

[Linsolv]

I suppose I could see that argument; I did see people "ballin" all around, but since it quickly was adjusted so that one shouted "Kobe" instead, and it was happening around the time the Pistons (lol, Detroit. I live right by there!) were winning the playoffs, it made sense to assume they were basketball fans. *shrug!*

 

My point is, he doesn't have any notable traits that aren't a stereotype, except that he's a wrestler which doesn't really count in my book.

[ampulator]

You know, I almost forgot about Ezekiel Jackson... and you know what? I've always liked the guy. Could be a HUGE monster heel if the WWE ever actually put some effort into it. That said, after they screwed up booking Kozlov (and The Big Show on a weekly basis), I don't think the WWE knows HOW to push a monster anymore.

 

That said, THIS is all the evidence I need as to why a certain someone SHOULD be the top black superstar in wrestling today:

 

Correction: WWE doesn't really know to push MOST workers today, because they are WRITERS, not BOOKERS.

[PeterHilton]

My point is, he doesn't have any notable traits that aren't a stereotype, except that he's a wrestler which doesn't really count in my book.

 

Honestly, I can't agree with you.

 

You could argue that most of the guys on the roster are playing 'stereotypes' of some sort; that kind of simple character is necessary. it's a shortcut for telling stories....99% of that roster has very little depth to their character.

 

And - again - at least it was a stereotypical character that the E got right. It's authentic.

 

I don't care that The Truth is playing a rapper. that doesn't bug me. It bugs me that he's wearing a hairstyle and doing dance moves that are like 15 years out of style...he looks like he stepped out of a video form the new jack swing era.

 

And I don't understand how talking about his real-life past is a stereotype. That's what really happened to him. The fact that it's such a positive end is awesome. Most kids who end up in jail by 16 spend the rest of their lives in the system. He's not. Good for him.

 

In the end, Self is probably right and his time passed him by. But MVP was/is a GREAT character (with a ****ty finisher- The Playmaker) that wasn't given the push he deserved.

[Linsolv]

I find that heels tend to play stereotypes straight.

 

Punk - That is indeed the Straight Edge stereotype, although the **** symbolism in the last promo or two (with the "heil" salute) is a new twist. As a face, he plays a more honest, less stereotypical character.

 

Regal - Again, stereotype.

 

Jericho, Miz -- everyone except MAYBE Edge, that I can think of off the top of my head.

 

On the other hand, (successful) faces tend to have more "unique" gimmicks that still tend to be simple and easy to digest.

 

 

 

Truth -- whose look I love, by the way, I'd love to seem him repackaged with a more subtle character -- seems to be an exception.

 

But as for faces that are simple but not normal stereotypes:

 

Big Show. His stereotype would be, hey, he's big. He must be a bully. Hey, he's fat, he must eat a lot. The only one he's dangerously close to is "hey, he's from the south, he must not be that bright."

 

Hart Dynasty. Do they actually have characters, though?

 

Captain Charisma.

 

Some holes in my argument; Rey Rey, Killings, MVP, Kofi before feuding with Orton...

 

I might be forgetting some people.

[Hyde Hill]

All I know is Pope is pimpin and has a bigger upside then all these guys lolz. Too bad he is legit injured now and the writing for him has been haphazard. And yeah Monty also had "it" so to speak but he is kinda old now to be pushed bottom to top in the E. Only place he could Main Event or Upper Midcard would be if he returns to TNA.

[The Shape]

On the other hand, (successful) faces tend to have more "unique" gimmicks that still tend to be simple and easy to digest.

 

Generally they adopt generic babyface gimmick #1, never back down, love the fans, no actual personality (and lose whatever they had when they were a heel).

[Linsolv]

All I know is Pope is pimpin and has a bigger upside then all these guys lolz. Too bad he is legit injured now and the writing for him has been haphazard. And yeah Monty also had "it" so to speak but he is kinda old now to be pushed bottom to top in the E. Only place he could Main Event or Upper Midcard would be if he returns to TNA.

 

Pope is a good example of not being a stereotype. He does have a character (even though Shape's sorta right. I could go through the list of everyone I can think of in the E and differentiate their personalities, but the broad strokes tend to be pretty similar) and he got over with the fans with a gimmick that was simple and direct but also disregarded his race.

 

Seriously, though. Ron Killings? With a name like that, they changed it? He's got the coolest last name of all time! Repackage him as an athletic badass and I'd be willing to turn a blind eye to the fact that I know it's R Truth.

[PeterHilton]

On the other hand, (successful) faces tend to have more "unique" gimmicks that still tend to be simple and easy to digest.

 

 

I have no idea how MVP's character is any simpler than Cena's "never gonna give up/goody two shoes" deal.

 

Not a critique of Cena. Just a statement about the way characters in the E are written.

 

Truth -- whose look I love, by the way, I'd love to seem him repackaged with a more subtle character -- seems to be an exception.

 

He looks like he came from the year 1994. Seriously..it's like watching Coolio wrestle. if he did his braids flat to his head or grew them out Weezy style I'd be all about it...(Because he's fun in the ring and has a really decent moveset) but he looks goofy like that. .

 

All I know is Pope is pimpin and has a bigger upside then all these guys lolz. Too bad he is legit injured now and the writing for him has been haphazard. And yeah Monty also had "it" so to speak but he is kinda old now to be pushed bottom to top in the E. Only place he could Main Event or Upper Midcard would be if he returns to TNA.

 

Too right on both counts. Burke would've been the biggest star the E could make. I honesltly think they knew that he was at his best as Black pope and didn't have the guts to run that character out in their PG world.

 

Generally they adopt generic babyface gimmick #1, never back down, love the fans, no actual personality (and lose whatever they had when they were a heel).

 

This. "Goody two shoes" is a stereotype.

 

Pope is a good example of not being a stereotype. He does have a character (even though Shape's sorta right. I could go through the list of everyone I can think of in the E and differentiate their personalities, but the broad strokes tend to be pretty similar) and he got over with the fans with a gimmick that was simple and direct but also disregarded his race.

 

 

A street hustler from 'the hood' who wears lots of 'bling' and talks about 'pimpin ho's'? Not a stereotype? Do you know any black people? You might want to run that by them and see if it has any racial overtones.

 

again..love the character though because it's done well.

 

But if you don't see how that's a stereotype or think it disregards his race I would strongly disagree.

[cappyboy]

 

Seriously, though. Ron Killings? With a name like that, they changed it? He's got the coolest last name of all time! Repackage him as an athletic badass and I'd be willing to turn a blind eye to the fact that I know it's R Truth.

 

Dude, think about this though. Ricky and Vic Steamboat were born Richard and Victor BLOOD. And they ended up getting name changed prior to the era of political correctness. If they can lose such a cool last name to the business back then, why SHOULD Killings be known by his in this much more sensitive day and time?

[Linsolv]

A street hustler from 'the hood' who wears lots of 'bling' and talks about 'pimpin ho's'? Not a stereotype? Do you know any black people? You might want to run that by them and see if it has any racial overtones.

 

again..love the character though because it's done well.

 

But if you don't see how that's a stereotype or think it disregards his race I would strongly disagree.

 

For the record, I always took that as a slant on his gimmick, and not as much the core of it. But I can see where I might have been mistaken. Or probably was.

[PeterHilton]

For the record, I always took that as a slant on his gimmick, and not as much the core of it. But I can see where I might have been mistaken. Or probably was.

 

No. You're right. But that's why it's well done.

 

He's not playing the ridiculous fur coat wearing, purple suit having, giant hat with a feather in it pimp from a 70s blaxploitation film.

 

He's paying a pimp. A hustler. But more like the kind of guy you'd see outside a really nice club in Manhattan. Or in the lobby of the hotel where the visiting sports team is staying.

[Stennick]

For the record, I always took that as a slant on his gimmick, and not as much the core of it. But I can see where I might have been mistaken. Or probably was.

 

If that is a slant on Popes gimmick than any "racial overtones" that MVP had were slants as well. Like Peter said his gimmick was he was a high level athlete thus his name "MVP". His gimmick was great, free agency, everything about that character was original and he was on fire back in 2006.

 

Wrestling has always been about stereotypes. Italians, Russians, Asians, Samoans, Blacks, Brits, when you think about the broad scope of things all of these people are usually sterotyped and have simple gimmicks.

 

Lately I've noticed that on these boards when someone doesn't seem to like a wrestler they say he's "not talented, or he's boring, or his character doesn't work" usually their wrong and the guy is talented, he's entertaining and he appeals to come audience with their character just not them.

 

For me I don't like Randy Orton. The guy is from St. Louis, he's my age, he lives within 20 miles of me, his a third generation superstar he's had some entertaining gimmicks but I just find the guy isn't what I like. That being said I'm not going to say he has a simple gimmick or because he's white and has anger problems thats a racial overtone or some non sense.

 

Joe is another guy I don't get. He's passionate, he's paid his dues, but I just can't get into the guys in ring style or character. I know others do but I don't. That being said I'm not going to say "Joe has average charisma and the only thing he can do is work stiff". Because that wouldn't be accurate so instead of saying things like that I just say "I'm not a fan of the guy".

 

Instead we come in here and we make these excuses on why we don't like these guys and most of the time the argument falls flat and it makes us look like a teenager who's unable to look at both sides of the coin. Or even worse it makes us look like a blind mark who likes a certain style and instead of coming out and admitting it they make excuses why guys who don't fit that style suck.

[crownsy]

If that is a slant on Popes gimmick than any "racial overtones" that MVP had were slants as well. Like Peter said his gimmick was he was a high level athlete thus his name "MVP". His gimmick was great, free agency, everything about that character was original and he was on fire back in 2006.

 

Wrestling has always been about stereotypes. Italians, Russians, Asians, Samoans, Blacks, Brits, when you think about the broad scope of things all of these people are usually sterotyped and have simple gimmicks.

 

Lately I've noticed that on these boards when someone doesn't seem to like a wrestler they say he's "not talented, or he's boring, or his character doesn't work" usually their wrong and the guy is talented, he's entertaining and he appeals to come audience with their character just not them.

 

For me I don't like Randy Orton. The guy is from St. Louis, he's my age, he lives within 20 miles of me, his a third generation superstar he's had some entertaining gimmicks but I just find the guy isn't what I like. That being said I'm not going to say he has a simple gimmick or because he's white and has anger problems thats a racial overtone or some non sense.

 

Joe is another guy I don't get. He's passionate, he's paid his dues, but I just can't get into the guys in ring style or character. I know others do but I don't. That being said I'm not going to say "Joe has average charisma and the only thing he can do is work stiff". Because that wouldn't be accurate so instead of saying things like that I just say "I'm not a fan of the guy".

 

Instead we come in here and we make these excuses on why we don't like these guys and most of the time the argument falls flat and it makes us look like a teenager who's unable to look at both sides of the coin. Or even worse it makes us look like a blind mark who likes a certain style and instead of coming out and admitting it they make excuses why guys who don't fit that style suck.

 

/signed, exactly how i feel at times.

 

IT seems like people decide they don't like a character, then invent reasons as to why anyone who IS a fan of that person doesn't get it, rather than being honest and just saying

 

"I don't like the guy, I know he's a good worker, but he doesn't do it for me."

 

Great post Sten

[PeterHilton]

**waits for cappyboy's next Ken Anderson tirade**