What grinds your gears?

[Daffanka]

.. And your point is? Humans, primitive people, whatever you want to call them were atheists before they developed enough imagination to start worshipping the sun and that's where all religions are based on. But we wouldn't be here without religion? Do tell, I'm all ears.

 

Arguments, not insults, please.

 

Sure religion makes people feel happy and safe but to me living your life trough the lense of fiction is the wrong way to go. Change it to the lense of fact and see the results yourself. My case was that there is not a single good thing in religion that couldn't be achieved by secular means.. And I know that most people are somewhat rational but that's my point: The cherrypicking, the 'pick'n'mix' christians/other believers. It's very hypocritical.. It's almost like saying "I think what god meant to say.."

 

E: Sadly I have to go, I'll reply when I'm back home

 

Yeah I'm not going to argue with you. Learned a long time ago not to argue with people who are vehemently on either side of this issue. Enjoy your night out.

[moon_lit_tears]

Ok FINisher

 

Join the conversation, fine.

 

YOU ARE A JACKASS!

 

You talk about religion is dead. You base this off of what?

 

You down those who are religious. I sir was born and raise in a Baptist family. Do I consider myself religious? Yes.

 

If you believe in god, or any god for that matter it makes you religious. I'm not saying people are hardcore church going bible reading all day prayers. There are some of those. Not as many as there use to be, but there are still plenty around.

 

I have met people on the board who simply don't believe in god. One of those people I have a great respect for. He is an awesome guy who has come out and said he isn't religious. I would never call him a jackass because he doesn't try to tell me I'm wrong on MY views.

 

I wouldn't have been so mad at you if you had simply said. Hey you know I don't believe in this or that. You said it was dead blah blah blah simply putting those of us that actually tend to believe in a higher power down.

 

So again fir the third time in this post because I actually am starting to hate you a little...YOU ARE A JACKASS.

[eayragt]

Yes and I quite like this argument and I like pure theists' way more than christians/muslims who identify solely to their religions. I can _accept_ (Doesn't mean that I agree) the proposition of there being an anonymous higher power, something larger than life itself (or possibly 'god' equals 'life'?) more than the proposition of there being a christian god etc.. The universe is there, it's vast and mysterious and we're all of the same star stuff and the universe in itself is in us. I just don't like the man made icing on top of that idea that people are so obsessed with.

 

Yes, the bit that annoys me when I have people knocking on my door to "sell" religion is that they will always accept that there is just one true power - however, this power is exactly what they believe in, and every other religion is worshipping an incorrect interpretation of that God.

 

And as proof they come up with "look around you, the proof's everywhere". Oh yes, you're right, Buddha's clearly just an interpretation of their God. Proven. I've got an open mind, but really? You expect me to be sold just like that?

[Self]

Yeah I'm not going to argue with you. Learned a long time ago not to argue with people who are vehemently on either side of this issue. Enjoy your night out.

 

That's probably the best thing to do. Technically I guess I'm an atheist (not that I like to label it) so I sort of share some of FINisher's opinions, but I also find Religion a fascinating and wonderful subject, and often find myself jealous of true believer's conviction and strength of will. I could wade into the discussion on several points, but... Who am I? I'm just some random dude eating cereal in his underpants. What do I know?

[eayragt]

Ok FINisher

 

Join the conversation, fine.

 

YOU ARE A JACKASS!

 

You talk about religion is dead. You base this off of what?

 

You down those who are religious. I sir was born and raise in a Baptist family. Do I consider myself religious? Yes.

 

If you believe in god, or any god for that matter it makes you religious. I'm not saying people are hardcore church going bible reading all day prayers. There are some of those. Not as many as there use to be, but there are still plenty around.

 

I have met people on the board who simply don't believe in god. One of those people I have a great respect for. He is an awesome guy who has come out and said he isn't religious. I would never call him a jackass because he doesn't try to tell me I'm wrong on MY views.

 

I wouldn't have been so mad at you if you had simply said. Hey you know I don't believe in this or that. You said it was dead blah blah blah simply putting those of us that actually tend to believe in a higher power down.

 

So again fir the third time in this post because I actually am starting to hate you a little...YOU ARE A JACKASS.

 

Did you read this post?

 

Yes and I quite like this argument and I like pure theists' way more than christians/muslims who identify solely to their religions. I can _accept_ (Doesn't mean that I agree) the proposition of there being an anonymous higher power, something larger than life itself (or possibly 'god' equals 'life'?) more than the proposition of there being a christian god etc.. The universe is there, it's vast and mysterious and we're all of the same star stuff and the universe in itself is in us. I just don't like the man made icing on top of that idea that people are so obsessed with.

 

Before we try and get this thread locked (and if any subject's going to do it, Religion is probably high up there), most posts are debates rather than "factual" pontifications. Lets concentrate on the debates, and keep the comments on the pontifications down to "I don't agree with this unproven Point fo View as fact".

 

Debate is good.

[moon_lit_tears]

To be honest I never read any post of his after the first one.

 

I won't worry about him anymore. His first one really got to me by what he said..

 

Anyway back to being my nice self.

[Stennick]

Fin the problem isn't whether or not there is a God or not. The problem isn't even what the percentage is. The problem is you said that people that believe in a God have a mental illness. Do you know how disrespecful and rude that is? There are billions of people all over the world that believe in a God and I'm guessing most have never said two insulting words to you. For you to boastfully and arrogantly come in here and generalize anyone who belives in a God as having a mental illness that means you're calling my grandmother, my little sister lots of people I care about mentally ill.

 

If you want to believe the chances of a God are less than a billionth of a percent thats fine. If you want to believe that anyone who believes in God is a sheep thats fine. Nobody insulting you and you're beliefs there are people that believe just as strong IN as god as you believe in NO God. I don't recall them coming on here and telling you that you have a mental illness because you can't that there is a God.

 

I've said it before I don't even know if I believe in a God but to start throwing around hurtful insults to people because of a personal belief in my opinion is way out of line. I've said it before I think you're a decent fella even if I don't agree with a lot of your in my opinion radical thoughts not just on religion I'm not going to come in here and insult you and tell you that you have some sort of problem because of the way you believe.

 

I'm all for debates such as this the chicken and the egg or what not but there is no reason to make rude, disrespectful comments to people for their personal beliefs or UNbeliefs. I don't know where you come from but in my neighborhood telling someone they have a mental illness because they think something different than you is pretty disrespectful.

[shawn michaels]

Fin the problem isn't whether or not there is a God or not. The problem isn't even what the percentage is. The problem is you said that people that believe in a God have a mental illness. Do you know how disrespecful and rude that is? There are billions of people all over the world that believe in a God and I'm guessing most have never said two insulting words to you. For you to boastfully and arrogantly come in here and generalize anyone who belives in a God as having a mental illness that means you're calling my grandmother, my little sister lots of people I care about mentally ill.

 

If you want to believe the chances of a God are less than a billionth of a percent thats fine. If you want to believe that anyone who believes in God is a sheep thats fine. Nobody insulting you and you're beliefs there are people that believe just as strong IN as god as you believe in NO God. I don't recall them coming on here and telling you that you have a mental illness because you can't that there is a God.

 

I've said it before I don't even know if I believe in a God but to start throwing around hurtful insults to people because of a personal belief in my opinion is way out of line. I've said it before I think you're a decent fella even if I don't agree with a lot of your in my opinion radical thoughts not just on religion I'm not going to come in here and insult you and tell you that you have some sort of problem because of the way you believe.

 

I'm all for debates such as this the chicken and the egg or what not but there is no reason to make rude, disrespectful comments to people for their personal beliefs or UNbeliefs. I don't know where you come from but in my neighborhood telling someone they have a mental illness because they think something different than you is pretty disrespectful.

 

 

Stennick, i generally agree with you, because you know how to make your point in a civilized way, as you did now. And from what i've read in this post, you are totally right about what Fin did...but...could you use comas please? Could you all?? Cause sometimes i'm writing all the posts you guys write and i have to start reading them again! Maybe it's just because i am a writer and i notice those things...but do use comas, please!

[Stennick]

I'm a horrible person when it comes to comas and most grammar. I do periods and capitalization and even spelling pretty well. I'm generally good at breaking separate thoughts into separate paragraphs but beyond that I stink

[Tha Black Phenom]

All the good comes from religion can be achieved by purely secular meanings, you simply do not need religion.

 

Doesn't mean it's any easier. Fact is, some people weigh on religion to not be on the wrong side of the tracks. A bunch of 'could's and 'would's won't change that.

 

It's laughable how some people can actually imagine how better a world without religion would be, too. It'd be better for YOU not to deal with that ****, and even if you did in such an alternate world you nor anyone would know what it holds or represents anyway.

 

And this medieval old times crap is BS. Faith is ageless and no amount of civilization evolution will change how folks feel. You don't have to believe in anything, but religion does a world of good to people. Just like, yes, it does a world of bad too. I think it'd be balanced either way. So just dwell on the good side of it.

[The Final Countdown]

Stennick, i generally agree with you, because you know how to make your point in a civilized way, as you did now. And from what i've read in this post, you are totally right about what Fin did...but...could you use comas please? Could you all?? Cause sometimes i'm writing all the posts you guys write and i have to start reading them again! Maybe it's just because i am a writer and i notice those things...but do use comas, please!

It's "commas", by the way.

 

Unless they drop the second 'm' in other countries and I just don't know about it...

[shawn michaels]

It's "commas", by the way.

 

Unless they drop the second 'm' in other countries and I just don't know about it...

 

Yeah! Blame the portuguese guy because he forgot an M! You do know that english is not Portugal's native language, don't you?

[BurningHamster]

Here's three more things that bother me.

 

Religion, politics and people who think their views on either need to be heard.

[hellshock70]

Certain posters that come off as: know it all, pompous, condescending and get upset when you return the favor in kind. LOL

[TommyDreamerFan]

Here's three more things that bother me.

 

Religion, politics and people who think their views on either need to be heard.

 

...And people that use/use any variation of the philosophy of "Opinions are like *******s" line. Wasn't clever or intelligent then, now, or ever.

[fatallylost]

Ok FINisher

 

Join the conversation, fine.

 

YOU ARE A JACKASS!

 

You talk about religion is dead. You base this off of what?

 

You down those who are religious. I sir was born and raise in a Baptist family. Do I consider myself religious? Yes.

 

If you believe in god, or any god for that matter it makes you religious. I'm not saying people are hardcore church going bible reading all day prayers. There are some of those. Not as many as there use to be, but there are still plenty around.

 

I have met people on the board who simply don't believe in god. One of those people I have a great respect for. He is an awesome guy who has come out and said he isn't religious. I would never call him a jackass because he doesn't try to tell me I'm wrong on MY views.

 

I wouldn't have been so mad at you if you had simply said. Hey you know I don't believe in this or that. You said it was dead blah blah blah simply putting those of us that actually tend to believe in a higher power down.

 

So again fir the third time in this post because I actually am starting to hate you a little...YOU ARE A JACKASS.

 

I like you, I do... buuuuutttt a belief in God, does not make you religious. It makes you spiritual. A belief in a religion (Baptist, Christian, Buddhist, etc) makes you religious.

 

I consider myself spiritual, but, I will never, outside of a full blown, awe inspiring miracle, will ever subscribe to a religion.

 

They said it best in Dogma, and I paraphrase. You can change an idea, but, millions have died for what they believe in.. right, or wrong.

 

Here's three more things that bother me.

 

Religion, politics and people who think their views on either need to be heard.

 

*claps*

[Clp605]

I hate long, long, LONG days they never seem to end, kinda like today for me. But that's something I can't help.

[TheBrockLock]

I think believing in a god is an absurd idea. There is not a single thing supporting the idea.. 'Symbols for the symbol-minded' as Carlin would put it. Watch Hithens, watch Dawkings debating against believers.. There is not a single argument for religion that couldn't be 'won' by atheism/agnosticism.

 

I'm saying that if we would:

 

1.) Start taxing religious buildings/etc..

2.) Stop questioning evolution (looking at you ID people.. You've gotta to be kidding me.. If someone is seriously denying evolution and instead saying that god created us in six days, something is wrong and they have a mental illness.)

3.) Put all the money that goes to churches/religion based institutes and instead use it to educate our youngsters and poor people of the world..

4.) Get over from the bronze age myths and medieval mythology and stop this nonsense discussion about god and religion. There is no god. Never was, never is, never will be..

 

.. We would have an awesome world to live in where the general IQ-levels would be in an all-time high and people in this world could live in peace and harmony and we could finally explore space properly. I seriously wish for a day when I see religion being taught from school books and the students of that day in the future would look back in human history and say 'how gullable they were and how limited their knowledge was'. It's going to happen sooner or later. The world is changing and people are realising how stupid the idea of a god really is. Stop the hallucination and wake up..

 

We know better than to believe in an old man in the sky who keeps track of everything you do, everything you say, everyday from the moment you're born to the moment you're dead and then judges you on your performance. We know better than to assume that there's a heaven and a hell. It's a man made bull**** story and don't deny it. You know it's crazy and untrue. A talking snake? Woman out of a rib? Get real.

 

We know better than to believe in a nonsense like christianity or islam or any other religion. Think about it.. Because of the accident of birth, you've born in one place at one time and your community worships the god of that time, it's that random that you happen to believe in the christian god. If you had been born in Norway during viking-era, you'd be worshipping Thor or Odin. Or Zeus, Mithras, and the list goes on and on and on. There have been thousands and thousands of other gods in the history of mankind. Why do you think yours is the right one? If you are a christian, why do you believe your god? Why don't you believe in Allah, for which you yourself are an atheist to.

 

Everyone of us is an atheist when we are born. It's when insane adults start teaching us about religion when we are too young to form a sophisticated argument against the idea that we get sucked into it. Everyone of us is an atheist to all the other gods.. Go a god further.

 

Start questioning things and soon you'll find how silly believing in a higher power/god really is.

 

 

To be honest I do agree with you for the most part, I myself dont belive in a "God" I think the whole concept of religion is flawed, the only problem I had with your first post is saying religion was going away and calling it a mental illness. Religion has been here for thousands of years and will be here after you and I both die. Religion is tied in with our culture, most of the population NEED religion. Some, and even most, people can not live without their religion, and they need to know other people are religious with them. I mean name the last American president that wasent religious. (I know your Finnish so if you dont know there has never been a President that wasent religious.)

 

And then there is the mental illness thing, as close as religion gets to being a mental illness in your eyes does not mean you get to call the billions of people who are religious mentally ill. Where is your PhD? Are you a psychologist? Can you perscribe perscription medication for mental illnesses? If not then please do not call people mentally ill for what they belive, for all we knwo you could be the one who is mentally ill in this regard. It's very rude to go about calling people mentally ill for something they have every right to belive in just becuase you dont belive what they do.

 

I agree with you that the way people view religion and spend money on it can be used in much better ways but I also belive that its people's right to belive in what ever religion they want and for whatever reason they want, even if thats just becuase its the religion their parents practiced, as long as someone lets me have my opinion on god, or lack of god, I can let them belive whatever they want.

[moon_lit_tears]

I like you, I do... buuuuutttt a belief in God, does not make you religious. It makes you spiritual. A belief in a religion (Baptist, Christian, Buddhist, etc) makes you religious.

 

I consider myself spiritual, but, I will never, outside of a full blown, awe inspiring miracle, will ever subscribe to a religion.

 

They said it best in Dogma, and I paraphrase. You can change an idea, but, millions have died for what they believe in.. right, or wrong.

 

 

 

*claps*

 

 

I like you too.

 

See we do differ on this point. I won't say you are wrong because it is your opinion as I have my own.

 

See..I can agree with people who don't post stupid crap. You outlined your point very well.

 

For that I like you more and think you are pretty much on top of your own beliefs and for that I would never fault you.

[moon_lit_tears]

To be honest I do agree with you for the most part, I myself dont belive in a "God" I think the whole concept of religion is flawed, the only problem I had with your first post is saying religion was going away and calling it a mental illness. Religion has been here for thousands of years and will be here after you and I both die. Religion is tied in with our culture, most of the population NEED religion. Some, and even most, people can not live without their religion, and they need to know other people are religious with them. I mean name the last American president that wasent religious. (I know your Finnish so if you dont know there has never been a President that wasent religious.)

 

And then there is the mental illness thing, as close as religion gets to being a mental illness in your eyes does not mean you get to call the billions of people who are religious mentally ill. Where is your PhD? Are you a psychologist? Can you perscribe perscription medication for mental illnesses? If not then please do not call people mentally ill for what they belive, for all we knwo you could be the one who is mentally ill in this regard. It's very rude to go about calling people mentally ill for something they have every right to belive in just becuase you dont belive what they do.

 

I agree with you that the way people view religion and spend money on it can be used in much better ways but I also belive that its people's right to belive in what ever religion they want and for whatever reason they want, even if thats just becuase its the religion their parents practiced, as long as someone lets me have my opinion on god, or lack of god, I can let them belive whatever they want.

 

Thank you!

 

I totally agree with you. I believe in *GOD* myself. I don't attend church often because most of the people that do are pretty much two faced. alot of the heavy church goes are the same ones you see doing the stuff the condemn others for doing.

[brashleyholland]

alot of the heavy church goes are the same ones you see doing the stuff the condemn others for doing.

 

I avoid Church *and* do the stuff church goers condemn others for doing. Best of both worlds :0)

[fatallylost]

Thank you!

 

I totally agree with you. I believe in *GOD* myself. I don't attend church often because most of the people that do are pretty much two faced. alot of the heavy church goes are the same ones you see doing the stuff the condemn others for doing.

 

This is the kind of stuff that, initially, turned me off from any organized religion. I think my mom said she is/was Protestant? Baptist? One of those. It was many years ago, and she's never shown any beliefs, to me anyway. So, it's easy to forget.

 

I actually asked her once what we were, and she said she was, whichever it is. Which is funny, cause I always assumed that you tended to be whichever religion you were raised in/parents were.

 

but, I digress. I have no issue with someone who wants/needs/gets something from religion. It just isn't for me. Not from what I've researched, if you can really call my info gathering methods that haha.

 

Just as long as people don't always shove it in my face, or, especially say that I'm wrong because this or that, I gain no issue.

 

On a slightly different note... here is a cartoon I drew of Muhammad and myself going to the beach..

 

http://hispanicsinaustin.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/298blog_censored_21.jpg

[ColtCabana]

I'd like to be able to debate this more but my written debating skills are not very good and I am not able to express my views as well as I would like to. I will just say this, you cannot make a definate view on either religion or athieism without opening your mind and trying to learn as much as you can about the whatever teaching they may have.

 

I try judging people on their personality, not race, religion, colour or even the sports teams they support! What I don't like are people who display such extreme negitivity about subjects like this, whatever side of the line they are on.

 

 

Yes, the bit that annoys me when I have people knocking on my door to "sell" religion is that they will always accept that there is just one true power - however, this power is exactly what they believe in, and every other religion is worshipping an incorrect interpretation of that God.

 

And as proof they come up with "look around you, the proof's everywhere". Oh yes, you're right, Buddha's clearly just an interpretation of their God. Proven. I've got an open mind, but really? You expect me to be sold just like that?

 

 

I know it may be splitting hairs but Buddha is not a god, he is considered a spiritual leader and teacher. I only know this because I recently watched a program on Buddha, not because I'm a know it all!

 

 

That's probably the best thing to do. Technically I guess I'm an atheist (not that I like to label it) so I sort of share some of FINisher's opinions, but I also find Religion a fascinating and wonderful subject, and often find myself jealous of true believer's conviction and strength of will. I could wade into the discussion on several points, but... Who am I? I'm just some random dude eating cereal in his underpants. What do I know?

 

I know this topic is "serious business" but that made me laugh, good work.

[fatallylost]

I try judging people on their personality, not race, religion, colour or even the sports teams they support!

 

Unless they're Yankee fans. Then there's no hope for them.

[moon_lit_tears]

Unless they're Yankee fans. Then there's no hope for them.

 

 

I think we are soul mates!

 

I HATE the Yankees! I think they are way over-rated