TEW2020 Discussion Thread

[EBEZA]

Most of us are probably pretty casual, but we shouldn't diss those who like to enjoy the game differently - and indeed, as a game, moreso than a sandbox.

 

I don't think much of the dissing is in response to the style of gameplay, but rather the "haha, you are wrong" elitist attitude.

 

I sometimes watch a friend stream that game, and all the suboptimal things just hurt me in the head - regardless of how elitist I know it is.

 

Here's a good example - do you go out of your way to make your friend feel stupid for playing Mega Man X his way? I somehow doubt it, because you know that's how he gets fun from the game, as opposed to the way you get fun from it.

 

I'm somewhere in between, I think, now that I think about it. I enjoy the game throwing me curveballs, I enjoy injuries, and having to change my plans, and being challenged.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with this. I love when my game goes wrong and I have to improvise. I saw someone recently say (somewhere, don't think it was on this forum) "Jericho got injured for like a year right near the start of my game, I had to restart" - that's the sort of thing that makes me even more likely to get hooked on a save!

[shawn michaels]

Life itself is a big math game to be tbh. It's just the most cleverly disguised.

 

Yes. Now compare the percentage of people that have figured out the equation of life versus those who haven't. Remove life features that would, in their opinion, keep them in that state of not knowing and watch them not liking it at all, whether it is logical or not.

[Kingster]

Life itself is a big math game to be tbh. It's just the most cleverly disguised.

Oh, I know and I'm so bad at this game. Yet, I still love it. Sometimes I just wish I could just start a new save or make edits to my user character.

[tambourin81]

I've been wanting that forever. The Road agent notes should be changed from 10. to more like 50. I know that's high but some matches need a crapton of notes added to it.

This is especially annoying when booking Battle Royales.

[nerodragomir1]

This is especially annoying when booking Battle Royales.

 

10 isn't nearly enough for a battle royal. If someone wanted to be meticulous about booking their shows. "lord knows I don't" 10 notes aren't enough. I also want more handicap options. I want the full spirit squad to 5 on 2, 5 on 3, or 5 on 1 matches. That would be fun.

[John Lions]

If you ever thought fog of war added any challenge to the game you probably were playing either so suboptimal it doesn’t make a difference whether you do or you don’t, or you play with so many crutches it also doesn’t matter whether you do or you don’t.

 

Largely, anyone who plays mods is a classic example, as almost every historical mod has cartoonishly overpowered workers which render anything beyond a roleplaying experience completely moot.

 

 

But I’m not here to really argue your opinion on the game. More to dissuade any potential sentiment which may reflect a knee jerk reaction to change the system. Since I’m pretty convinced people are being intentionally hyperbolic in order to enact unnecessary changes they want, much like the National battle system change.

 

 

 

Especially given that almost every relevant worker for the last 2 entries has been unaffected by Fog entirely because they have enough experience to be fully scoutable on game start, it’s very hard for me to take these “dealbreaker” complaints as genuine.

 

Just wanted to chime in that you are just patently wrong with this? If you ever played a game where, say, you played for more than a couple years, or it was a different fantasy universe (TVerse, effganic, etc), it makes it "harder" because you don't just know who's good and who isn't, even for a power gamer.

 

You're missing that people play the game for different reasons.

 

You have clearly stated your opinion that you play the game as a sandbox, a game that you are actively trying to "win" at. That's totally cool, and a lot (probably most) players are like that. The thing is, a wrestling simulation game isn't only played by just "winning" and "losing". People play TEW to fantasy book, I mean that's how most of us got into it anyway!

 

The whole argument you have against Fog of War is hinged on the narrow window of how YOU play TEW. Fog of War makes no sense to play with it on, because I know how good everyone is already, especially in a real world mod! That's cool. If I play an effverse mod, or I sim 10 years in CVerse and start up a company, I DON'T know how good those wrestlers are.

 

Fog of War was a relatively unique feature for a sports/sports-esque simulation game because it makes you not just rely on raw numbers to determine your actions in the game. It's not perfect - physical attributes, for example, don't make sense to be gated behind the same wall as, say, basics or psychology, and they do go a bit too slow at small sizes. But, it's 100x more realistic, which is why I play TEW. I try and create as realistic of a scenario as possible. I can't just look at a guy who just graduated from a dojo and never wrestled in his life, and know how good he is on a scale from 1-100 at every wrestling skill in the game. Hell, I shouldn't know on an F-A scale either.

 

Take a step back and realize that, yeah, we all play the same silly wrestling simulation game and we're all obviously the 1% of insanely passionate players, but just because you play it one way doesn't mean everyone plays it that way.

 

If Fog of War was really such a divisive feature, it's always been able to be turned off... I'm having a hard time believing that it was preventing the worker comparison or searching for specific exact skill levels from working because they work fine in WMMA with Fog of War on.

[James Casey]

If the New York Minute is the Fameasser, then what's the Proton Lock?

 

 

In WS2 at least it was a Sharpshooter with an added bridge to grab the opponent's head as well - think of an STF but even more brutal.

[FINisher]

• Don't like the Fog of War. Never played with it aside from like, twice. I get why people do, but I don't.
  
• Love numbers, hate letters. Also always played with the numbers. Do I understand why yes shutup.
  

 

I'm totally the opposite Always hated precise numbers in any way shape or form, especially in TEW games. Give me vague letters and words any time over numbers.

 

I really do hope Adam will revert the FoW decision since it's really a gamebreaking issue for a lot of people. You are essentially killing even the slightest bit of subtlety and mystery out of the game.

 

Or if not, make it so that it can easily modded, like I did with the numbers to letters graphics. I've replaced all the numbers with grades that way in my TEW2016 games. Every number from 00 to 05 is a F- image, everything from 96 to a 100 is a A*.

[Self]

I'm totally the opposite Always hated precise numbers in any way shape or form, especially in TEW games. Give me vague letters and words any time over numbers.

 

I really do hope Adam will revert the FoW decision since it's really a gamebreaking issue for a lot of people. You are essentially killing even the slightest bit of subtlety and mystery out of the game.

 

Or if not, make it so that it can easily modded, like I did with the numbers to letters graphics. I've replaced all the numbers with grades that way in my TEW2016 games. Every number from 00 to 05 is a F- image, everything from 96 to a 100 is a A*.

 

Nah. Too precise. I want A to F. No pluses. No minuses.

 

Scratch that, mod it so everything is either a thumbs up, or a thumbs down. True mystery.

[TLCJR4LIFE]

Just wanted to chime in that you are just patently wrong with this? If you ever played a game where, say, you played for more than a couple years, or it was a different fantasy universe (TVerse, effganic, etc), it makes it "harder" because you don't just know who's good and who isn't, even for a power gamer.

 

You're missing that people play the game for different reasons.

 

You have clearly stated your opinion that you play the game as a sandbox, a game that you are actively trying to "win" at. That's totally cool, and a lot (probably most) players are like that. The thing is, a wrestling simulation game isn't only played by just "winning" and "losing". People play TEW to fantasy book, I mean that's how most of us got into it anyway!

 

The whole argument you have against Fog of War is hinged on the narrow window of how YOU play TEW. Fog of War makes no sense to play with it on, because I know how good everyone is already, especially in a real world mod! That's cool. If I play an effverse mod, or I sim 10 years in CVerse and start up a company, I DON'T know how good those wrestlers are.

 

Fog of War was a relatively unique feature for a sports/sports-esque simulation game because it makes you not just rely on raw numbers to determine your actions in the game. It's not perfect - physical attributes, for example, don't make sense to be gated behind the same wall as, say, basics or psychology, and they do go a bit too slow at small sizes. But, it's 100x more realistic, which is why I play TEW. I try and create as realistic of a scenario as possible. I can't just look at a guy who just graduated from a dojo and never wrestled in his life, and know how good he is on a scale from 1-100 at every wrestling skill in the game. Hell, I shouldn't know on an F-A scale either.

 

Take a step back and realize that, yeah, we all play the same silly wrestling simulation game and we're all obviously the 1% of insanely passionate players, but just because you play it one way doesn't mean everyone plays it that way.

 

If Fog of War was really such a divisive feature, it's always been able to be turned off... I'm having a hard time believing that it was preventing the worker comparison or searching for specific exact skill levels from working because they work fine in WMMA with Fog of War on.

 

 

 

 

You can literally see how good every wrestler under 30 is going to be in the creative meeting screen. With minimal maneuvering you can also see the exact range of star quality he has, the exact range of charisma we has, if he ever will be charismatic, exactly the range his performance skills will be at.

 

 

Using ring General you can estimate within 10 or so points what his stamina would be, not including practical testing since stamina thresholds are ridiculously linear and always ping for the exact same match length thresholds.

 

 

Using showstopper you can get a similar estimate of a wrestlers flashiness, athleticism and star quality.

 

 

 

The only thing you can’t see with reasonable certainty is top row stat, and even that can be gamed to be estimatable by using match types and checking for notes.

 

Furthermore even beyond that, the game TELLS you, albeit in a slightly more ambiguous way if the worker is good or not.

 

 

If you see Rumble - Excellent, that means the worker probably has over 70 brawling.

 

The exact figures are more obscure but again, it doesn’t make anything more difficult than it would be otherwise, this is the sole reason I don’t use it.

[ChairToFace]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Self" data-cite="Self" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Nah. Too precise. I want A to F. No pluses. No minuses. <p> </p><p> Scratch that, mod it so everything is either a thumbs up, or a thumbs down. True mystery.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'm surprised nobody's done that yet.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TLCJR4LIFE" data-cite="TLCJR4LIFE" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Using ring General you can estimate within 10 or so points what his stamina would be, not including practical testing since stamina thresholds are ridiculously linear and always ping for the exact same match length thresholds.<p> </p><p> </p><p> Using showstopper you can get a similar estimate of a wrestlers flashiness, athleticism and star quality.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Doesn't that depend on the workers in your company? I thought it only showed the best guys on the roster in that area. So TCW's ring generals would have a different stamina than MAW's ring generals.</p>

[John Lions]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TLCJR4LIFE" data-cite="TLCJR4LIFE" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You can literally see how good every wrestler under 30 is going to be in the creative meeting screen. With minimal maneuvering you can also see the exact range of star quality he has, the exact range of charisma we has, if he ever will be charismatic, exactly the range his performance skills will be at.<p> </p><p> </p><p> Using ring General you can estimate within 10 or so points what his stamina would be, not including practical testing since stamina thresholds are ridiculously linear and always ping for the exact same match length thresholds.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Using showstopper you can get a similar estimate of a wrestlers flashiness, athleticism and star quality.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> The only thing you can’t see with reasonable certainty is top row stat, and even that can be gamed to be estimatable by using match types and checking for notes. </p><p> </p><p> Furthermore even beyond that, the game TELLS you, albeit in a slightly more ambiguous way if the worker is good or not. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> If you see Rumble - Excellent, that means the worker probably has over 70 brawling. </p><p> </p><p> The exact figures are more obscure but again, it doesn’t make anything more difficult than it would be otherwise, this is the sole reason I don’t use it.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> We're getting off of the actual meat of the topic, but I'll bite.</p><p> </p><p> What is difficulty? In a simulation game, wouldn't making it so you can't have 100% accuracy, and making you spend more time to get information to use, be making it more difficult? Especially when you have to continually play with pushes to see things like Hot Prospects and such. If we're going to nitpick, I'd say that turning on Fog of War absolutely would make it more difficult, because, at a minimum, it makes you spend X amount of extra time digging through non-exact reports to get an idea of what the stats tell you in seconds.</p>

[TLCJR4LIFE]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Steven James" data-cite="Steven James" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'm surprised nobody's done that yet.<p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Doesn't that depend on the workers in your company? I thought it only showed the best guys on the roster in that area. So TCW's ring generals would have a different stamina than MAW's ring generals.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><p> You just remove the pushes of everyone so you can look at the guys you want to. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="John Lions" data-cite="John Lions" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>We're getting off of the actual meat of the topic, but I'll bite.<p> </p><p> What is difficulty? In a simulation game, wouldn't making it so you can't have 100% accuracy, and making you spend more time to get information to use, be making it more difficult? Especially when you have to continually play with pushes to see things like Hot Prospects and such. If we're going to nitpick, I'd say that turning on Fog of War absolutely would make it more difficult, because, at a minimum, it makes you spend X amount of extra time digging through non-exact reports to get an idea of what the stats tell you in seconds.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><p> It doesn’t make it any more difficult, workers starting stats are largely irrelevant, the only reason to use it would be to see their potential which is really the only thing that matters, since by the time they are polished enough to be viable they will be out of Fog anyway.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Assuming forced Fog, I would literally only use it to see the exact Star Quality range, that’s the only difference from a non Fog game.</p><p> </p><p> And as stated, it doesn’t increase difficulty, it just makes it more inconvenient and slower. I don’t want fake difficulty in the form of pedantry, give me decent AI or something, that’s the actual difficulty.</p>

[Peria]

The new worker promise feature is fantastic! This game is such a must buy for me.

[Gungner]

<p>I love the tag team miscommunication note! </p><p>

I'll be using that (probably too much) to justify a loss <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[franticloser]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TLCJR4LIFE" data-cite="TLCJR4LIFE" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> </p><p> <strong>The exact figures are more obscure but again, it doesn’t make anything more difficult than it would be otherwise, this is the sole reason I don’t use it.</strong></p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><p> You hit the nail on the head there, this is reason YOU don't use it. Others don't play the same way and continuing to harp on others for having fun and either not figuring this out/knowing but purposefully not gaming the system, is just beating a dead horse at this point. Agree to disagree we all play this game differently and for different reasons. </p><p> </p><p> FOW up until now has been optional, I'd like to see it continue to be so, but if Adam can't functionally use it for other systems that he would like to implement then it is his choice. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> I tend to play small companies and try and build up young prospects (in historical mods set when I was first watching in the early 90s, or even guys you don't normally think of just to see if I can make something out of them) So, FoW with variance can change the game a lot each time. My mindset isn't to be the best company in the world and metagame and optimize everything, it is creating great stories and role playing, so while I like FoW I'm not going to hate it being gone either. </p><p> </p><p> You play it with a different mindset, neither of these are wrong, nor are they sub optimal. The game is designed to simulate being in charge of a wrestling company, if you play it as a role playing game, you wouldn't know every wrestler's stats to the number, it is impossible, so it was just an immersive feature, designed for us to be able to simulate that inability. For those of you who like to play it differently it was able to be turned off. No reason to talk down to others, for their choice to play, and let's move on?</p><p> </p><p> Side note the promises is interesting, and reminds me of favors from CK2. I'd like to know a bit more about how it will work, and if you can offer something to sway their choice as well. And there is real life examples of workers requesting to work with and put over other guys. </p><p> </p><p> I am sure personalities and relationships will be taken into account so we won't be seeing Hogan requesting to put over someone that isn't a close friend, and also less willing to agree to put over others. I can see mentors wanting to put over their protegee, as they get closer to retirement, or close friends/relatives being willing to put the other over. But Daniel Bryan did request to work with Ali before he got that concussion, Taker is rumored to have provided a list recently of guys he is willing to work with going forward and it includes Drew Mcyntire. So, it isn't so far fetched, and I'm curious to see how it plays out.</p>

[shawn michaels]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Peria" data-cite="Peria" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The new worker promise feature is fantastic! This game is such a must buy for me.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I like it, but still feel negotiations should be involved for it not be completely weird sometimes. But it's great. Adds a lot of randomness to the game, which is what most people want. The idea of someone proposing to put x over, when we might not even have considered it is great. Someone gave the Daniel Bryan/Chad Gable example, dunno if it was here or in discord, but it is a great example. We might not want to bother to go down that route to not upset Bryan or have to change the match to his liking, but if he offers himself, great stuff.</p><p> </p><p> The titles finally being able to be moved is also a big one. I gotta say, like much of us anticipated, the QOL announcements did indeed bring great stuff. And then other stuff...<img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> Still a very positive game, so far. Let's see how it evolves.</p>

[Teh_Showtime]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="James Casey" data-cite="James Casey" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>In WS2 at least it was a Sharpshooter with an added bridge to grab the opponent's head as well - think of an STF but even more brutal.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Almost certain this equates to the Muta lock but can’t remember exactly</p>

[Matt_Black]

I wonder if the proactive part will be related to worker relationships or opinions. For example, it would make sense if someone approached you about them putting over their protege as opposed to some random guy.

[Vladamire Dracos]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Matt_Black" data-cite="Matt_Black" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I wonder if the proactive part will be related to worker relationships or opinions. For example, it would make sense if someone approached you about them putting over their protege as opposed to some random guy.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I agree, though it would be nice to see guys approaching retirement age start offering to put over some of the younger talent on the roster on their way out (assuming they have that sort of altruistic personality). Having an elder vet come up to the booker and say "give me RookieX to work with for the next few shows" just because they see something in the kid and want to give him the rub isn't that out there.</p>

[Jaysin]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TLCJR4LIFE" data-cite="TLCJR4LIFE" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It doesn’t make it any more difficult, workers starting stats are largely irrelevant, the only reason to use it would be to see their potential which is really the only thing that matters, since by the time they are polished enough to be viable they will be out of Fog anyway.<p> </p><p> </p><p> Assuming forced Fog, I would literally only use it to see the exact Star Quality range, that’s the only difference from a non Fog game.</p><p> </p><p> And as stated, it doesn’t increase difficulty, it just makes it more inconvenient and slower. I don’t want fake difficulty in the form of pedantry, give me decent AI or something, that’s the actual difficulty.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Is it really that hard for you to understand that people play the game differently than you? You're acting like people want Fog of War to be mandatory when all they're asking is for it to be optional like it has been.</p>

[BleedTheFreak_23]

Just saw that tournament brackets ARE being added! I know you could do it before yourself (and I have) by outside means, but an actual system in game with all the added features is literally amazing. All I could've asked for. My top 2 requests made it! Now some cosmetic belt/HOF/HOI stuff being added will make this the best game ever.

[Jaded]

I was really sad that Fog Of War was removed but the new Scouting system sounds like a fantastic replacement - even more pumped now!

[smw88]

The new scouting and pro version sound great to me

[FlameSnoopy]

Talk about burying the lead on this one! Better Fog Of War sounds good to me, I'm imagining it's somewhat like in WMMA5 now. Pro Mode also looks like an interesting addition. Really, really glad Fog isn't gone!