The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[PeterHilton]

"This is more like The Source awards.." - Matt Stryker after the Hardy/Master/Carlito brawl.

 

Holy crap! Now THAT was funny.

[PeterHilton]

And NOW a Kante spoof by Batista...the E must be hiring younger writers.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Something tells me Batista pitched for that himself. Hilarious moment.

 

And I thought HBK would win the "oh my!" one for kicking off that little annoying chick's head, oh well xD

[Eisen-verse]

Okay... So I admit... I haven't watched WWE in a few weeks... BUT...

 

How the HELL did Sheamus (or however you spell it) win the WWE Championship? I mean, great for them to create a new superstar but... What? No build up? Just a big title win right away? I was a little shocked by this seeing how he just joined RAW it seemed.

[SaySo]

Okay... So I admit... I haven't watched WWE in a few weeks... BUT...

 

How the HELL did Sheamus (or however you spell it) win the WWE Championship? I mean, great for them to create a new superstar but... What? No build up? Just a big title win right away? I was a little shocked by this seeing how he just joined RAW it seemed.

 

It started a few weeks ago. And during that time, he won the breakthrough battle royal...he put John Cena through the table. He put Mark Cuban through the table. And he beat Chena at TLC. Like Sheamus had said for the last three weeks, "I'm going to beat Cena because i can. I'm going to win the championship because i can." He accomplished that in a short time on Raw....because he can.

[PeterHilton]

Okay... So I admit... I haven't watched WWE in a few weeks... BUT...

 

How the HELL did Sheamus (or however you spell it) win the WWE Championship? I mean, great for them to create a new superstar but... What? No build up? Just a big title win right away? I was a little shocked by this seeing how he just joined RAW it seemed.

 

Pretty sure that was what everyone else was thinking.

 

I also think they dropped the ball a little by not having him follow up with a dominant win over somebody tonight.

[Eisen-verse]

It started a few weeks ago. And during that time, he won the breakthrough battle royal...he put John Cena through the table. He put Mark Cuban through the table. And he beat Chena at TLC. Like Sheamus had said for the last three weeks, "I'm going to beat Cena because i can. I'm going to win the championship because i can." He accomplished that in a short time on Raw....because he can.

 

Wow, I missed a lot in a few weeks. haha.

 

I saw the clip of him putting Cuban through a table on ESPN, however, I thought it was just a ploy for the WWE to get a new superstar of theirs some exposure with a greater fringe audience. I had no idea that he was either already the champ or a soon to be one.

 

I mean, as I said, great for the WWE to put the ball in someone else's hands for once... but.... Maybe a build would have been nice? Just giving someone a title doesn't make them a Main Eventer... Then again, these days in wrestling it seems that it does.

[Wrestling Century]

Not really. The Rumble. I'd rather see HBK/HHH and Cena/Taker at WM

 

I actually want The Undertaker vs Rey Mysterio at 'Mania. Why? Because 'Taker vs Cena already happened at Vengeance 2003, and while it was a fantastic match, I would rather have a match that I've never seen before be at 'Mania.

[PeterHilton]

I actually want The Undertaker vs Rey Mysterio at 'Mania. Why? Because 'Taker vs Cena already happened at Vengeance 2003, and while it was a fantastic match, I would rather have a match that I've never seen before be at 'Mania.

 

Interesting. I see virtually no way to build a story leading up to Taker/Mysterio.

[Wrestling Century]

Interesting. I see virtually no way to build a story leading up to Taker/Mysterio.

 

Just think about it. Mysterio and 'Taker have both had some of the best matches of their career this year. I'd say that both of them are in their primes (and yes I know that they are both going to retire soon). Also, HBK vs 'Taker didn't have much build up. The story was basically that Shawn wanted to break 'Taker's streak. So why couldn't they do that for Mysterio vs 'Taker?

[Remianen]

Shouldn't the WWE know that?

 

Plus (IMHO) he isn't that funny, he just uses big words to make his average jokes appear smart. I prefer jokes that make you think about the idea or the more story teller style.

 

*shrug* It's a personal thing. I like Dennis Miller (and Bill Maher and Ron White ("I was gonna!"), etc) and despise people like Dane Cook who are funnier to themselves than they are to anyone else. I mainly like Dennis Miller because he's an intelligence test (IMO). Half the references he makes requires people actually know stuff. But I would agree that WWE should've known better since he's not appealing to their audience. In fact, they would've been far better off with Dane Cook than Dennis Miller. I mean, he called Triple H "The Show".

 

I liked a lot about this episode though. Masters and his schtick, Vicki & Santino, I loved how Randy Orton sold the chokeslam after he "beat" Taker though I didn't like how Punk got....well, punked. It fit but I didn't personally like it. King's joke about Mark Henry and computer dating was good too.

[PeterHilton]

Just think about it. Mysterio and 'Taker have both had some of the best matches of their career this year. I'd say that both of them are in their primes (and yes I know that they are both going to retire soon). Also, HBK vs 'Taker didn't have much build up. The story was basically that Shawn wanted to break 'Taker's streak. So why couldn't they do that for Mysterio vs 'Taker?

 

I mean..they could...but at this point Taker's character is a little bigger than life.

 

And with retirement seemingly around the corner, they NEED Taker to face off against someone else a little bigger than life at Mania.

 

Rey just doesn't fit the bill. Kinda think he ends up in MITB.

[thatoneguy]

I thought Rey had to get surgery on his knees again, but this time it might actually keep him out of the ring...Was that wrong?

[PeterHilton]

I thought Rey had to get surgery on his knees again, but this time it might actually keep him out of the ring...Was that wrong?

 

It looks like it. The rumor was that the beat down by Batista was done to justify his time away from the ring. But since he never really took time off...seems like the surgery wasn't as serious as reported. Or it went better than expected.

 

Same thing happened with Show's knee injury a few weeks back.

[BHK1978]

*shrug* It's a personal thing. I like Dennis Miller (and Bill Maher and Ron White ("I was gonna!"), etc) and despise people like Dane Cook who are funnier to themselves than they are to anyone else. I mainly like Dennis Miller because he's an intelligence test (IMO). Half the references he makes requires people actually know stuff. But I would agree that WWE should've known better since he's not appealing to their audience. In fact, they would've been far better off with Dane Cook than Dennis Miller. I mean, he called Triple H "The Show".

 

Nobody is better off with Dane Cook on there show. I do agree with you that Dennis Miller is a bit of an odd choice to host RAW. However, what I saw of him tonight I liked.

[thatoneguy]

It looks like it. The rumor was that the beat down by Batista was done to justify his time away from the ring. But since he never really took time off...seems like the surgery wasn't as serious as reported. Or it went better than expected.

 

Same thing happened with Show's knee injury a few weeks back.

 

I could be wrong on this, but I was of the understanding that he didn't get his surgery yet, and came back to finish his feud with Batista.

[PeterHilton]

I could be wrong on this, but I was of the understanding that he didn't get his surgery yet, and came back to finish his feud with Batista.

 

Pretty sure that feud was over at Survivor Series.

[lazorbeak]

Wow, I missed a lot in a few weeks. haha.

 

I saw the clip of him putting Cuban through a table on ESPN, however, I thought it was just a ploy for the WWE to get a new superstar of theirs some exposure with a greater fringe audience. I had no idea that he was either already the champ or a soon to be one.

 

I mean, as I said, great for the WWE to put the ball in someone else's hands for once... but.... Maybe a build would have been nice? Just giving someone a title doesn't make them a Main Eventer... Then again, these days in wrestling it seems that it does.

 

I don't think they're finished building him. As I said earlier, it gives WWE an opportunity to do something new with Cena, which is face an opponent he has never been able to beat.

 

I honestly can't relate to anyone who doesn't enjoy Dennis Miller. He's hilarious, his delivery is great, and his jokes are typically packed with references. I felt like he was bringing out some of his B-list material but that's only natural since he can't swear and he's talking to a younger demographic: so you can obtuse references to Kanye instead of 19th Century drama.

 

Also it seemed like everybody else stepped up their comedy game this week. I loved Striker's delivery of "I have seven sisters" and Carlito and Masters' segment was surprisingly excellent. How about a babyface push for Masters? Change his secondary finish to a leaping pectoral press or something. Big Dick Johnson's reading glasses and faux-accent were pretty funny, too.

 

Also I haven't watched Smackdown in awhile, but it seems CM Punk's evil is so great that even a beard cannot contain it.

[Wrestling Century]

The Slammy's turned out to be a much better show than I expected. Did everybody see Khali screw up virtually every move of the match?

[G-Prime]

He put Mark Cuban through the table.

 

Awww. I knew I quit watching wrestling too early. I missed Mark Cuban? Did he bring out Cameron Vessey?

 

I miss Mark Cuban Does DaVE...

[jbergey_2005]

Wow, I guess I have egg on my face. I never thought they'd put Shameus over on Cena.

 

The funny thing is they have this new title holder but they didnt hardly feature him at all during a 3 hour show. People need to know who he is.

[djthefunkchris]

To me... I use the Title's as a prop when playing TEW. I do this, because I believe that is the realistic thing to do, especially if I base it off TNA/WWE type promotions, but I really don't know of any I wouldn't say the same thing about.

 

Putting the title on someone that I expect to be main event at some point, even if they are not, is something I would do. However, I dissagree with everyone that's acting as though this particular guy is unheard of, not special, etc.

 

When Shaumus debuted everyone noticed. It's hard not to remember a name like that (even if you can't spell it). His look is a complete cartoonish look, that's so simple it stands out. When I say it stands out, you know what I'm talking about. The Red hair in contrast with the albino skin, makes for uniqueness that is not easily forgotten. Even in these forums, for all the talk we have had about Koslov, Swagger, MVP, Kennedy, etc.. We talked about Shaumus right off the bat, and just about everytime he did "anything" we thought meant something (at least most did).

 

I'm not one of the fans of this guy, I liked Swagger (still do) though. As soon as I seen Shaumus, I knew he debuted too close to Swagger, because as easy as someone like Swagger would be to build up, this guy is guarrenteed not to be forgotten. Swagger has everything this guy has, and probably better in ring skills as well... But this guy just has this look that's so dang easy to work with, in a way that will not be hard to build (because of his undeniable unforgettable look).

 

Put a guy like him on a brand where the Top Draw doesn't mind building up everyone and anyone (litterally) that he can, and it's not hard to say "Hmm, I know what would get him noticed even faster....."

 

Doesn't mean anything to them if you or me think he needed a storyline that builds him up or not.. To them, that's the story itself... Getting the title first time he gets a chance. It's also something NO ONE expected, yet will say "Predictable" to everything they do. When it's unpredictable, they are accused of being dumb (works this way for both WWE and TNA lately).

 

Wrestling is, will be, and has always been, an evolving door of innovative storytelling. Sometimes the stories are good, sometimes they suck (more often then not). They have a story for everyone on their roster, and these stories are unfinished till they leave, or retire. Many different people probably write different chapter's in their story. So now we have a NEW champion, that is bassically a NEW star in the WWE.

 

Merchandise, although a huge part when it comes down to pushes, screen time, etc.. is not the BE all END all to the Belts. IF you remember that the belts are a prop (at least in my opinion), not unlike the briefcase for "Money in the Bank", etc.. then you can easily see why someone such as Shaumus can end up with it. It won't hurt his popularity, it's not meant to give him instand "Main-Event" status, it's just a prop that he has that everyone else wants (or is supposed to desire anyways). It makes him a focal point, and now it's up to him to use that focus to shine. If he can't cut it, this could end up bad for him, or he could fall into the mid-card. Either way, I'm impressed with WWE for taking a risk on someone that has not proved themselves to be a WWE mainstay (at least in my opinion). Something they seem to have been unwilling to do for a few years now.

[Remianen]

To me... I use the Title's as a prop when playing TEW. I do this, because I believe that is the realistic thing to do, especially if I base it off TNA/WWE type promotions, but I really don't know of any I wouldn't say the same thing about.

 

Yeah, that's why Triple H/Cena/Taker keep carrying the props.

 

Putting the title on someone that I expect to be main event at some point, even if they are not, is something I would do.

 

Doesn't make it good business in the short term. Sure it can pay off in the long term sense but that's not guaranteed money. Bird in the hand and all that.

 

We talked about Shaumus right off the bat, and just about everytime he did "anything" we thought meant something (at least most did).

 

Actually, if I remember right, I "talked about Sheamus" in fear that they'd misuse him.

 

Swagger has everything this guy has, and probably better in ring skills as well...

 

Absolutely not. Seriously, do people not exist prior to signing with WWE?

 

Merchandise, although a huge part when it comes down to pushes, screen time, etc.. is not the BE all END all to the Belts.

 

Umm, are you serious? The belt is the central point of most money drawing programs. The only time it's not is when workers are bigger than the title (see: DX, Taker-Michaels, JeriShow). This whole thing is a setup to a 'babyface chases the title' storyline. Now, without the title, what's the babyface gonna chase? Why does he want to beat this guy? What's his motivation? Props are infinitely interchangeable and replaceable. A gun in a fight scene is easily replaced with a knife or a spatula or a pair of panties. That gun doesn't define the fight. A title in this kind of program defines the program. It represents the goal. It's a finish line of sorts. Without a finish line, where and when does a race end?

 

I think you're oversimplifying things, but that's your right. I always treat titles as a symbol. My top title is always an anointment of sorts. It's me telling the fanbase that this is my top worker (or this is what my top worker is striving for). You think the Vince Lombardi trophy or the Stanley Cup is a prop? I know many who would disagree with that assertion.

[djthefunkchris]

Yeah, that's why Triple H/Cena/Taker keep carrying the props.

 

 

 

Doesn't make it good business in the short term. Sure it can pay off in the long term sense but that's not guaranteed money. Bird in the hand and all that.

 

 

 

Actually, if I remember right, I "talked about Sheamus" in fear that they'd misuse him.

 

 

 

Absolutely not. Seriously, do people not exist prior to signing with WWE?

 

 

 

Umm, are you serious? The belt is the central point of most money drawing programs. The only time it's not is when workers are bigger than the title (see: DX, Taker-Michaels, JeriShow). This whole thing is a setup to a 'babyface chases the title' storyline. Now, without the title, what's the babyface gonna chase? Why does he want to beat this guy? What's his motivation? Props are infinitely interchangeable and replaceable. A gun in a fight scene is easily replaced with a knife or a spatula or a pair of panties. That gun doesn't define the fight. A title in this kind of program defines the program. It represents the goal. It's a finish line of sorts. Without a finish line, where and when does a race end?

 

I think you're oversimplifying things, but that's your right. I always treat titles as a symbol. My top title is always an anointment of sorts. It's me telling the fanbase that this is my top worker (or this is what my top worker is striving for). You think the Vince Lombardi trophy or the Stanley Cup is a prop? I know many who would disagree with that assertion.

 

I honestly have no idea what your dissagreement is? You say one thing, but when you explain it, sounds the same to me (just adding something to it). The prop is the goal, or it is the tool. The important thing I guess, is that we agree that the Main title is the focul point (or should be).

 

Shaumus or Swagger winning it, wouldn't have made me cringe like most have. I don't have a problem with it. Your problem with "people not exist prior to signing with WWE", or question rather of "Do they not?" is in reference to something I said, in reguards to what other's have said/been saying. IN other words, your taking it slightly out of context if you don't take in the rest of the conversations going on in this thread (and other relevant threads). I'm talking strictly in the WWE, as that was what they were talking about (Building up, and such being "rushed").

 

You completely ignored this part of my post

It makes him a focal point, and now it's up to him to use that focus to shine. If he can't cut it, this could end up bad for him, or he could fall into the mid-card. Either way, I'm impressed with WWE for taking a risk on someone that has not proved themselves to be a WWE mainstay (at least in my opinion). Something they seem to have been unwilling to do for a few years now.

Or you just wanted to repeat it with your own words (talking about the first part of you post that I bolded).

 

Either way, good discussion. I really don't know if you were debating me or just emphasizing me in a arguementive way?

[Self]

From a pure story perspective, Sheamus as Champion makes sense. More than Miz or Swagger at any rate. We've seen those two lose to Kofi & Evan & MVP a ton of times, so without a multi-month build it's in no way believable that they can beat John Cena. Sheamus on the other hand is an unknown entity. We haven't seen him lose, so we don't know his limitations. It's believable. I like that.

 

I hate how WWE tends to use a bring-in-at-the-bottom-slowly-work-your-way-up way of introducing new characters. Hate it. It takes so long for them to move to the Main Event that I get bored of them. MVP for example, I was really into him for a while, but now he bores me. If he started main eventing, I wouldn't really care. Same with Miz. Same with Swagger. Getting there with Morrison. I'm a HUGE Hardy mark, but when Jeff made it to the top, I... I was happy, but I still turned off Smackdown before the Main Events. I'd already seen everything he could do.

 

So I really like that they've brought in this new character into a prominant position. I liked it with Koslov. I like it with Sheamus. To me, the lion's share of new characters should shoot right into the Upper Midcard.