[RELEASE] Territory Daze

[OGpistolpete]

Oh boy, ready to download the newest version! This is a great mod man, I really appreciate the effort you put into it! This is just a great mod to boot up without really knowing anybody and throwing yourself into the mix. Plenty of companies to choose from, and starting one up is my favorite part. The biographies have to be the masterpiece item of this mod. They really allow you to immerse yourself within the universe and have a decent understanding of who each wrestler is and what they were like in real life. And that goes back to admiring the amount of research you put into this mod, must have been very tough getting information on a lot of these guys!

 

With that said, here are some potential improvements I would like to suggest:

 

• Add more television stations for different regions. I started a promotion out of New England because they were a region that essentially wasn't covered, and looking at my television options, they were very limited compared to other regions, even though I guarantee they had just as many television stations. Gives the player more opportunity to create their own promotion and do things their way instead of starting the path of a promotion already in place.
  
• Add free worker pictures that match this era. If I buy photoshop again here soon I would love to help you out with this. Would allow the player to create their own wrestler or apply realistic pictures from that time era to newly created workers within their saved game.
  
• Add more time relevant angles. Yes iDOL's angle pack does the job, but a lot of them don't necessarily fit the time era. I'm thinking along the lines of physical lifting challenges that impress the fans, maybe the wrestlers interacting with the fans, stuff like that.

[Mammoth]

Oh boy, ready to download the newest version! This is a great mod man, I really appreciate the effort you put into it! This is just a great mod to boot up without really knowing anybody and throwing yourself into the mix. Plenty of companies to choose from, and starting one up is my favorite part. The biographies have to be the masterpiece item of this mod. They really allow you to immerse yourself within the universe and have a decent understanding of who each wrestler is and what they were like in real life. And that goes back to admiring the amount of research you put into this mod, must have been very tough getting information on a lot of these guys!

Thank you, it means a lot. Getting information on some of them was extremely tough, but for me it all stems down to exactly what you mentioned earlier; even if you don't know anybody from this era, hopefully my biographies help people understand them a little more and therefore make the moderation playable. Perhaps what I'm most proud of is the way I've managed to include so much information in their biographies but leave out anything that hasn't happened yet, in game terms. For example, I'll never mention titles or accomplishments that yet to début workers may have achieved in real life because obviously none of that has happened yet. It makes it slightly more difficult, but I feel it's another huge way to immerse the game player.

 

With that said, here are some potential improvements I would like to suggest:

 

• Add more television stations for different regions. I started a promotion out of New England because they were a region that essentially wasn't covered, and looking at my television options, they were very limited compared to other regions, even though I guarantee they had just as many television stations. Gives the player more opportunity to create their own promotion and do things their way instead of starting the path of a promotion already in place.

Yeah, television networks and pay-per-view providers are both things that I hope to add more to in future updates. It's about finding the right balance between including networks that actually aired professional wrestling shows and adding random networks just to beef up the database. As I say though, it is something that's in the pipeline that I hope to beef up in the near future.

 

• Add free worker pictures that match this era. If I buy photoshop again here soon I would love to help you out with this. Would allow the player to create their own wrestler or apply realistic pictures from that time era to newly created workers within their saved game.

To be honest, free worker pictures isn't something I've thought about. Because of the sheer amount of workers who everyone knows and loves in real life who obviously début between 1970 and today, I didn't think there's necessarily a reason to include free worker pictures. If it's something people would like though (even if it's just for user characters) I could quite easily add a couple.

 

• Add more time relevant angles. Yes iDOL's angle pack does the job, but a lot of them don't necessarily fit the time era. I'm thinking along the lines of physical lifting challenges that impress the fans, maybe the wrestlers interacting with the fans, stuff like that.

Actually, making my own angle and match pack is something I've thought about doing for a while. I've got my thumb in a lot of pies at the moment though so I may just add to iDOL's angle pack for now because more "old school" angles would be a good thing, as you say. Could you please expand on "wrestlers interacting with the fans"? I'm not entirely sure what you mean.

 

Other than that, three good suggestions which I'm sure I can build on. Thank you again for such praise, it truly does mean a lot.

[smartman]

Okay, looked things over again. Here's my thoughts.

 

1. I think the AWA needs to be re-named NSW as in No-Sell Wrestling as pretty much their entire UMC and ME guys will get that no-sell note every single match. Thankfully, I think, this game had almost all of them in time decline so they all got canned and replaced by a bunch of people who can sell and call in the ring.

 

2. The psych upgrades are great. Lots more people now show up when you search for Good/Great In-Ring Workers under 40. Not happy at all that you downgraded my go-to guy for Road Agent.

 

3. I really wonder if you fully grasp how the numbers work in the game though. It's mainly the fault of all the math we learn. You see a 0-100 scale and immediately go "Oh, 50 is average.". That's not the case in the game. It is pretty much pass/fail where 66+ is pass, and anything below 66 means they're rubbish (top row excluded).

 

So, a 63 Selling doesn't mean that they're a normal seller during the match. It means that they're no-selling during the match all the time. A 40 and a 65 are the same rating there for game purposes. And another thing that has plagued mods since the dawn of TEW is that they see that and go "Oh well all the big guys no-sell all the time thus a 50 is perfect for them." when it is their character no-selling. I mean there is a very good reason the penalty for no-selling in a match is pretty severe. It means the match is only remembered for how bad it was. I mean if no punch was sold or a submission hold had the guy laughing, we'd all think the guy sucked.

 

4. I bring that up with respect to your safety ratings. There are so many 50's. Heck, most people I saw were in the 50's. Those are very unsafe workers. I sure don't remember that many guys in the C-Verse with those low a rating in 2010, and I don't remember that many in any mods I have played either. Maybe the 66+ doesn't apply to Safety, but those are abnormally low compared to everyone else. I just don't want a ton of guys picking up injuries, which is what I'm thinking is going to happen.

 

5. The Rodger Kent thing still needs fixing. Quite simply, the game demands a Color Commentator, which isn't realistic, but there are only 2 when you search (Dave Brown being the other). This means there are literally 10+ feds that go to hire him first thing because evidently they don't have one. He's literally the most valuable person in the game. Honestly, I'd be fine if you just named them Color (Wrestling Fed) and gave them 70 Charisma (needs to be high enough so they don't try to replace him). Not sure Loyalty to AWA would stop it as they're mostly PPA deals though the AI sure does love giving out Exclusive PPA deals, especially PCAC.

 

The mod still looks great. Just a little more tweaking, mainly the safety, and it will be darn near perfect.

[Mammoth]

Okay, looked things over again. Here's my thoughts.

 

1. I think the AWA needs to be re-named NSW as in No-Sell Wrestling as pretty much their entire UMC and ME guys will get that no-sell note every single match. Thankfully, I think, this game had almost all of them in time decline so they all got canned and replaced by a bunch of people who can sell and call in the ring.

Well, five of the ten Upper Midcarders in my game are C+ or above (and therefore above that magical 66 you keep mentioning, as I believe that's where the C+ grade begins) and three of the ten Main Eventers are also C+ or above. Granted, that might be a little low but a lot of these guys aren't known for their selling ability. I'm not saying these guys didn't sell, only that they weren't very good at it. I did warn you that I'd probably be finding some sort of middle ground and I probably wasn't going to "up them" to the numbers you're hoping for, but on the whole I do think they're more balanced.

 

2. The psych upgrades are great. Lots more people now show up when you search for Good/Great In-Ring Workers under 40. Not happy at all that you downgraded my go-to guy for Road Agent.

Oh really, who was your go-to guy?

 

3. I really wonder if you fully grasp how the numbers work in the game though. It's mainly the fault of all the math we learn. You see a 0-100 scale and immediately go "Oh, 50 is average.". That's not the case in the game. It is pretty much pass/fail where 66+ is pass, and anything below 66 means they're rubbish (top row excluded).

 

So, a 63 Selling doesn't mean that they're a normal seller during the match. It means that they're no-selling during the match all the time. A 40 and a 65 are the same rating there for game purposes. And another thing that has plagued mods since the dawn of TEW is that they see that and go "Oh well all the big guys no-sell all the time thus a 50 is perfect for them." when it is their character no-selling. I mean there is a very good reason the penalty for no-selling in a match is pretty severe. It means the match is only remembered for how bad it was. I mean if no punch was sold or a submission hold had the guy laughing, we'd all think the guy sucked.

No, I totally grasp the mechanics of the game, but on a similar level I can't possibly give someone a 66+ in a statistic just to make the game easier. I only ever give a 66+ if they qualify for that 66+, not just so it stops the player getting dinged. I certainly didn't/don't see 50 as the average, as I've always seen a C grade as the average. If I'm not mistaken, that's anywhere from 60-up (59 if you want to nitpick) which again, isn't that 66+ "pass grade" but is usually where I find the middle and either work up or down depending on how good that statistic is for a certain worker.

 

As you bring safety up in your next thought, I'll move on to that:

 

4. I bring that up with respect to your safety ratings. There are so many 50's. Heck, most people I saw were in the 50's. Those are very unsafe workers. I sure don't remember that many guys in the C-Verse with those low a rating in 2010, and I don't remember that many in any mods I have played either. Maybe the 66+ doesn't apply to Safety, but those are abnormally low compared to everyone else. I just don't want a ton of guys picking up injuries, which is what I'm thinking is going to happen.

Safeties are set to where they are for two reasons; one is that the workers generally hit harder back then to increase the reality of their wrestling and the other is to better simulate the time period. I can't recall that many in the 50s (that's not to say I don't believe you when you say there's a lot) but if they are set that low, it's more than likely because they've got more of a hard-hitting arsenal where there's always a possibility to hurt someone. As for the second part of my answer, everyone is somewhat lower than you'd expect them to be because there were a lot of injuries back in the day and that's because of the aforementioned reality of their wrestling, the riots they invoked, and also the amount of shows they worked on and the amount of travelling they had to do to get to them shows. As there is no way of simulating the amount of travel or the riots, and I can't very well replicate the amount of shows without making the moderation almost unplayable, I settled for lowering their safety somewhat. Resilience is high in a lot of cases though which should counteract some of it and speaking from my own experience of playing Territory Daze, there doesn't seem to be an abnormally high amount of injuries, even though the safety statistics are somewhat low. Anyway, even without all that, I've always been one of those people who've thought that there probably wasn't enough injuries in TEW (in any moderation) considering the nature of the sport so even if Territory Daze does present a few more injuries for the player, I'm almost happy about that without sounding too evil. xD It's yet another way to present challenges and obstacles to the player which better represent real life.

 

5. The Rodger Kent thing still needs fixing. Quite simply, the game demands a Color Commentator, which isn't realistic, but there are only 2 when you search (Dave Brown being the other). This means there are literally 10+ feds that go to hire him first thing because evidently they don't have one. He's literally the most valuable person in the game. Honestly, I'd be fine if you just named them Color (Wrestling Fed) and gave them 70 Charisma (needs to be high enough so they don't try to replace him). Not sure Loyalty to AWA would stop it as they're mostly PPA deals though the AI sure does love giving out Exclusive PPA deals, especially PCAC.

Yeah, I absolutely hate it that the game demands a Colour Commentator because in this era, they were damn near unheard of. As I said before, I'm against adding a random character because I didn't/don't even like adding a random User Character but I'm not entirely sure how to fix it. There is obviously tons (tons may be pushing it but that's the word I'm sticking to ) of potential Colour Commentators out there, but because their role as a Colour Commentator is only set to "Sometimes" they don't appear when you're searching for 'em and the AI can only choose between them who do. Without setting some of the workers to "Usually" a Colour Commentator, I don't know what else to do. I don't think it would matter if I set some of the non-wrestlers to "Usually" (Jack Crawford and Jeff Walton come to mind) but I'd obviously be against setting some of the wrestlers to "Usually" as their in-ring careers haven't come to end yet and I'd hate to see them stuck at the commentators table. Perhaps setting some of the more charismatic Announcers to Colour Commentators too will solve the issue? It obviously won't be realistic because they never did any of the Colour Commentating in real life but I feel it would ease some of the stress on Kent and Brown.

 

The mod still looks great. Just a little more tweaking, mainly the safety, and it will be darn near perfect.

Thanks, I don't think it'll ever be perfect, but hopefully we get somewhere pretty close.

[snakesonaplane]

Safeties are set to where they are for two reasons; one is that the workers generally hit harder back then to increase the reality of their wrestling and the other is to better simulate the time period. I can't recall that many in the 50s (that's not to say I don't believe you when you say there's a lot) but if they are set that low, it's more than likely because they've got more of a hard-hitting arsenal where there's always a possibility to hurt someone. As for the second part of my answer, everyone is somewhat lower than you'd expect them to be because there were a lot of injuries back in the day and that's because of the aforementioned reality of their wrestling, the riots they invoked, and also the amount of shows they worked on and the amount of travelling they had to do to get to them shows. As there is no way of simulating the amount of travel or the riots, and I can't very well replicate the amount of shows without making the moderation almost unplayable, I settled for lowering their safety somewhat. Resilience is high in a lot of cases though which should counteract some of it and speaking from my own experience of playing Territory Daze, there doesn't seem to be an abnormally high amount of injuries, even though the safety statistics are somewhat low. Anyway, even without all that, I've always been one of those people who've thought that there probably wasn't enough injuries in TEW (in any moderation) considering the nature of the sport so even if Territory Daze does present a few more injuries for the player, I'm almost happy about that without sounding too evil. xD It's yet another way to present challenges and obstacles to the player which better represent real life.

 

I think if you want to simulate the stiff style of workers in this era, another way you could achieve this is by looking at the products of each promotion.

 

If you fiddle with Intensity and Danger, you can change how 'stiff' the workers are in their matches, to simulate the hard-hitting style.

 

From derek's guide,

 

"Intensity itself is about the pacing of the action, the amount of time spent doing moves and the basic level of physicality that goes into making a match between the competitors. The higher this is set the more you will see two people going at it the more wear and tear it'll put on someone's body to wrestle this style, the stiffer the shots are likely to be and the easier it is to buy into as being "real"."

 

Thus if you increase the Match Intensity of each companies product you can simulate the hard-hitting style of the era, without compromising safety stats - which as far as I know is more about a workers ability to safely perform in a more rudimentary manner.

[Mammoth]

I think if you want to simulate the stiff style of workers in this era, another way you could achieve this is by looking at the products of each promotion.

 

If you fiddle with Intensity and Danger, you can change how 'stiff' the workers are in their matches, to simulate the hard-hitting style.

 

From derek's guide,

 

"Intensity itself is about the pacing of the action, the amount of time spent doing moves and the basic level of physicality that goes into making a match between the competitors. The higher this is set the more you will see two people going at it the more wear and tear it'll put on someone's body to wrestle this style, the stiffer the shots are likely to be and the easier it is to buy into as being "real"."

 

Thus if you increase the Match Intensity of each companies product you can simulate the hard-hitting style of the era, without compromising safety stats - which as far as I know is more about a workers ability to safely perform in a more rudimentary manner.

It's a fair point but it generalises it somewhat. The reason I opted for Safety is that it gives me the ability to assess everyone individually. Although the large majority of workers are potentially low in Safety, there are those that aren't and upping the Match Intensity and/or Danger will have consequences for them as well. If I'm not mistaken, I'd have to change a whole host of products too because I think it's generally better to listen to the AI when forming the promotions and most Match Intensity and Match Danger sliders are set to what the AI predicts will be "ideal". As I alluded to in my last post, injuries haven't been abnormally high in my play-through so I don't think it's too much of an issue unless someone can prove otherwise?

[lovegun77]

New picture fits perfectly with the image of Skull murphy that I know. Now its scary!

Speaking about pictures, I saw Miyuki Yanagi doesnt has picture, if thats because you dont have one, I have a picture of her. Just for the case, I post it here.

And one other thing, Mil maskaras is currently working for two regional companies, but he will refuse to work in another regional companies anymore because it is too small for him. As a owner of regional level company, I felt that is unfair! Maybe you can teach him the reality that it is territory daze.

[Mammoth]

New picture fits perfectly with the image of Skull murphy that I know. Now its scary!

Speaking about pictures, I saw Miyuki Yanagi doesnt has picture, if thats because you dont have one, I have a picture of her. Just for the case, I post it here.

And one other thing, Mil maskaras is currently working for two regional companies, but he will refuse to work in another regional companies anymore because it is too small for him. As a owner of regional level company, I felt that is unfair! Maybe you can teach him the reality that it is territory daze.

Thank you, that's very helpful. Anyone who hasn't got a picture is because I couldn't/didn't find a picture of said worker so anything like this to help fill in the gaps is priceless.

 

http://i.imgur.com/Q8nnJpl.jpg

 

By all accounts, Mil Mascaras was a bit of a jerk unless he liked you and without lowering his negative personality traits, I'm not sure how else I can change this. I've got to say, I started a new promotion in my game and signed him no problem so maybe you just got a bad roll of the dice and he's even more of a jerk in your game. xD I'll look into it and see if there's anything I can do to stop this happening because if he's not prepared to work for regional territories, then there's only so many places that can sign him.

[lovegun77]

If thats the case, one more picture.

It is Kunimatsu Matsunaga(jimmy kayama).

[Mammoth]

If thats the case, one more picture.

It is Kunimatsu Matsunaga(jimmy kayama).

Thanks!

 

http://i.imgur.com/ucIXjbC.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/DZVzZmy.jpg

 

Note: All pictures have been added to the database on my end, but I'm uploading them so people can use them now if they so choose.

[smartman]

Okay, first, my earlier comment was a little harsher than I meant. Sorry if that offended you. My point basically was that with juggling that many stats and the fact that we are ingrained from Kindergarten that the average between 2 numbers is automatically calculated in our heads that it is too easy for that to leak into your thoughts when rating people. Clearly from your answer, that isn't the case.

 

We can just agree to disagree though on just what a sub-66 selling rating means. You seem to view it as "They weren't known as great sellers." where I, and the game, view it as "These guys couldn't sell worth a lick which was always remembered by people watching the match". Think of it as when two giant guys are doing that whole trading 7 punches or so each with neither budging. Now, that's by design, but that is what a match between two people who aren't at 66 looks like for the entire match until the loser basically falls down and gets pinned/submits. Again, I get where you're coming from, but what you're actually saying is that a lot of those guys couldn't sell worth a darn which isn't your point.

 

The safety thing was just mentioned because it is dramatically lower than anyone else's. If it doesn't produce any more injuries, then that's perfectly fine. As was noted by snakes, I think you're confusing Safety, which is how well the wrestler can do their moves without hurting their opponent, Stiffness, which is how hard they hit (so a stiff worker is going to cause more damage with their opponent needing more recouping before working again because they're sore as hell), and Match Intensity/Danger.

 

Here's how I break these down.

 

A wrestler is going to hit a Steamboat/Flair chop.

 

A low safety wrestler--there's a good chance he's going to miss and break the guy's nose.

 

A stiff wrestler in a low intensity fed--the chop is going to hurt the wrestler a little bit vs other than turning the guy's chest a little red, nothing happens with an average stiffness and low intensity fed

 

A stiff wrestler in a 40%-60% intensity fed (what the default for an equal fed usually runs)--the chop hurts like hell and maybe causes the wrestler to lose his breath while his chest turns beet red. Add in an unsafe wrestler and there's a chance he misses either breaking the guy's nose badly or even hits him in the adam's apple potentially killing him.

 

An average stiff wrestler in a 40-60 intensity fed--the chop hurts and turns the chest red but nothing more.

 

The Match Danger rating should be low because they weren't really doing dangerous moves like they started doing in the early 90's. Some moves looked dangerous but really weren't.

 

As for the rest, the guy I pegged for Road Agent was George Gadanski as he's not a good wrestler, but he's awesome in the locker room. He had like a 79 or so psych before, now a 66.

 

I can't say what the default breakdown was as again, a bunch of the old guys got tossed due to time decline (but I think they're all not good) but here's the list now.

 

Main Eventers

Bill Watts--66 (which I think is a downgrade) Pass

Billy Red Lyons--81 Pass

Dr. X--63 Fail

Carpenter--85 Pass (usually on my time decline though)

Harley Race--69 Pass (starts at UMC though)

Luis Martinez--64 Fail

Mad Dog Vachon--59 Fail (and he's the top rated heel)

Verne Gagne--54 Fail (Top Face and World Title holder)

 

Upper Midcarders

Angelo Poffo--76 Pass (usually on TD and first game I've kept him actually)

Von Raschke--61 Fail (and at 29 probably not ever hitting 66 that hurts as he's one of the few good young guys at the top of the card you start with)

Blackjack Lanza--66 Pass (at 34 he's close to slipping and -0.1 means he switches to fail)

Butcher Vachon--64 Fail (so the tag champs no sell every match)

Larry Hennig--62 Fail

Luke Graham--71 Pass (Did you tweak him a lot? I've never kept him before.)

Pepper Gomez--65 Fail

 

That's 7 out of 15 (Not counting Pat Patterson who I signed) again, after a heavy culling of time decliners (Bobo and Joe S. both selling in the 50's). The biggest issue is that you're going to have to go outside of your roster to give the titles to people who can carry them unless you want to give everything to Harley Race (and/or Dusty Rhodes when you start with as the UC).

 

I'm jobbing Dr. X out before letting him go (way too much pop to just release), Verne has to drop the title pronto (he's actually on the 3-4 years past his prime TD list though that selling makes him worthless) before being jobbed out until he becomes the RA, Hennig would be fired if not for being Harley's best friend, same for Red Bastien (midcarder) who can't sell who will be in tag teams until I dump him. The good news is that there are now a lot of good wrestlers who can sell and call in the ring now that replacements are readily available. The Vachons really hurt as I could see them running with those tag belts for a long time, and a feud with the Blonde Bombers could be a Midnight Express vs RnR Express-level decade long one. Now, Butcher is going to leave when his contract is up while I shift Mad Dog to either CC or Manager.

[metallica fan]

If this can help: Frankie Hart

 

[Mammoth]

If this can help: Frankie Hart

 

[ATTACH]5511[/ATTACH]

Thank you, I did come across that picture but because he's retired in the game (and quite old) I didn't like using a picture of him in his ring days and looking quite young. I have since found another picture of him which people can use if they so choose:

 

http://i.imgur.com/cFUHHJj.jpg

 

He still looks relatively young but at least he doesn't look like he's still competing. I think I'll include it on my end too, because I think a picture - even if it's not perfect - is better than none, right?

[shipshirt]

Any thoughts on El Santo? I feel like he's shorted a little on his Star Quality and Popularity throughout Mexico. He was a huge deal, bigger than Blue Demon (even though the latter did beat him a few times).

[Mammoth]

Any thoughts on El Santo? I feel like he's shorted a little on his Star Quality and Popularity throughout Mexico. He was a huge deal, bigger than Blue Demon (even though the latter did beat him a few times).

Well, he has 86% (B+) Star Quality and he's 10% higher than EMLL's popularity right across Mexico, theoretically making him bigger than the promotion. I'm not sure how I could make him bigger?

[shipshirt]

Well, he has 86% (B+) Star Quality and he's 10% higher than EMLL's popularity right across Mexico, theoretically making him bigger than the promotion. I'm not sure how I could make him bigger?

 

He does, but I thought it weird that Blue Demon has 88% so I just didn't understand why he would have any more. I would think Santo was at at least an A if not A* due to his being a cultural icon. He's only an A in pop for one region of Mexico while in the rest of the country he's a C.

 

He was a wrestler that transcended lucha and was really iconic in stature. His funeral in Mexico was legendary for the sheer number of people who turned out for it.

 

He's definitely one of the couple (maybe Rikidozan as well) of wrestlers that is bigger than the promotion he wrestles for.

[Winter8905]

This looks amazing. Cant wait todownload it.

 

Can anyone explain how the NWA World title works? can it be defended in mulitple promotions? can the allience itself have its own title?

[shipshirt]

This looks amazing. Cant wait todownload it.

 

Can anyone explain how the NWA World title works? can it be defended in mulitple promotions? can the allience itself have its own title?

 

Sadly no. Alliance titles would be amazing. Dory does work for a ton of promotions in the game but the only one he holds the NWA World Title in is St. Louis. As Mammoth has mentioned you can create a version of it in a different territory and then trade for that wrestler but the official one is dictated by St. Louis.

[Mammoth]

He does, but I thought it weird that Blue Demon has 88% so I just didn't understand why he would have any more. I would think Santo was at at least an A if not A* due to his being a cultural icon. He's only an A in pop for one region of Mexico while in the rest of the country he's a C.

 

He was a wrestler that transcended lucha and was really iconic in stature. His funeral in Mexico was legendary for the sheer number of people who turned out for it.

 

He's definitely one of the couple (maybe Rikidozan as well) of wrestlers that is bigger than the promotion he wrestles for.

Sorry, I thought you meant Blue Demon's popularity was bigger than El Santo's, not his Star Quality. That's fair enough, but as it's only a 2% difference it's most certainly by fault and not design. I could maybe lower Blue Demon slightly but I'm reluctant to raise El Santo's Star Quality because yes, he was extremely popular but I still wouldn't say he had that much "presence" necessarily. He was almost transformed into a star, it wasn't exactly natural if that makes sense? His popularity is limited somewhat elsewhere from West Central, Mexico because EMLL's popularity is limited outside West Central, Mexico which is what I was alluding to earlier. Yes, his popularity was on a whole other level because of his acting career but as TEW is a wrestling game, I didn't feel it was necessary to translate that into the game because it would give him an unfair advantage. It's very hard to translate/simulate everything from the real world into the game so the way I've done it is to keep to promotions overness, trying to ignore everything outside of wrestling. For example, the guys in America who had successful football careers don't have popularity in the areas they played unless they've wrestled in said area. So yes, he can be bigger than the promotion but only by a certain amount.

 

This looks amazing. Cant wait todownload it.

 

Can anyone explain how the NWA World title works? can it be defended in mulitple promotions? can the allience itself have its own title?

I hope you enjoy it.

 

As for the NWA World title? It can only be defended in SLWC as the game unfortunately doesn't allow alliance titles. As shipshirt said, the only real way to simulate it is to do this:

 

"If you really want to use an NWA belt, I think the best way to simulate it would be to create a new belt and name it as applicable (so the "NWA World Heavyweight Championship" if that’s what you want), bring the champion in on loan, give it to them and then have them "lose" it to the person you want to hold it or if you want the original champion to keep the belt, simply retire the championship when the loan expires. It’s not ideal, but it’s the best I can offer you right now."

[shipshirt]

Sorry, I thought you meant Blue Demon's popularity was bigger than El Santo's, not his Star Quality. That's fair enough, but as it's only a 2% difference it's most certainly by fault and not design. I could maybe lower Blue Demon slightly but I'm reluctant to raise El Santo's Star Quality because yes, he was extremely popular but I still wouldn't say he had that much "presence" necessarily. He was almost transformed into a star, it wasn't exactly natural if that makes sense? His popularity is limited somewhat elsewhere from West Central, Mexico because EMLL's popularity is limited outside West Central, Mexico which is what I was alluding to earlier. Yes, his popularity was on a whole other level because of his acting career but as TEW is a wrestling game, I didn't feel it was necessary to translate that into the game because it would give him an unfair advantage. It's very hard to translate/simulate everything from the real world into the game so the way I've done it is to keep to promotions overness, trying to ignore everything outside of wrestling. For example, the guys in America who had successful football careers don't have popularity in the areas they played unless they've wrestled in said area. So yes, he can be bigger than the promotion but only by a certain amount.

 

Why do you think he didn't have a presence? I mean, if you go by the fact that he wasn't a star until he became El Santo, you could say that Steve Austin, Hulk Hogan, The Rock and The Undertaker didn't have a presence either. Same with Mr. Wrestling II who wasn't lighting the world on fire as "Rubberman" Johnny Walker. Very few wrestlers, if any, are stars right out of the gate. They have to find that right character, be in the right place at the right time and also be able to have something about them. I don't think sticking just anyone in the Santo mask would have got the same results.

 

Having said all of that, the dude is 52 at game start so he's not really going to be a factor in anyone's long term game but I just like talking about old time wrestlers haha

[Mammoth]

Why do you think he didn't have a presence? I mean, if you go by the fact that he wasn't a star until he became El Santo, you could say that Steve Austin, Hulk Hogan, The Rock and The Undertaker didn't have a presence either. Same with Mr. Wrestling II who wasn't lighting the world on fire as "Rubberman" Johnny Walker. Very few wrestlers, if any, are stars right out of the gate. They have to find that right character, be in the right place at the right time and also be able to have something about them. I don't think sticking just anyone in the Santo mask would have got the same results.

 

Having said all of that, the dude is 52 at game start so he's not really going to be a factor in anyone's long term game but I just like talking about old time wrestlers haha

No, I don't think just anyone could have become El Santo but I also don't think Rodolfo Guzmán Huerta could have become El Santo without being turned into a popular comic book hero or without his acting career. Yes, he was very popular in wrestling rings which is why the aforementioned comic book was made in his image but he wasn't going to popularise the sport like Rikidozan did without the ventures into pop culture. It was almost like he became much more than a professional wrestler but as I say, that wasn't because he was the man behind the mask. Generally, I think it's always difficult to rate someone on star quality when they're under a hood because it's difficult to separate the person from the mask. Take Johnny Walker for instance since you brought him up, he has a "C" in Star Quality in Territory Daze but you could argue once he donned the mask, he was probably a lot closer to a "B" but it's very hard to simulate that. So trying to stick to one rule for all, I'm trying to rate everyone on the men under the masks even though "El Santo" the gimmick probably would be higher. I remember suggesting before that we should be able to alter some statistics for alter egos for this very reason because depending on what gimmick someone is using, their star quality, menace and sex appeal can all vary but it didn't get any comments. As I say, it's very difficult to judge sometimes.

 

Don't worry, I love talking about old school wrestlers too, especially those from countries other than America because doing this moderation has increased my knowledge on other countries (Australia and Mexico in particular) tenfold. It's been a real experience and now it's pretty much done, any opportunity I have to speak about it is a real enjoyment for me. xD

[lovegun77]

I know in reality they are big stars, but I think some mexican wrestlers are too popular in the mod. there are only two recognisable wrestlers in USA, while Mexico has one star and one draw, and three well-knowns. I dont know how popularity and working agreement is related, but as far as I tested, El santo, Ray Mendoza and Mil Maskaras will reject to work for any regional level companies, even with AWA. They will only work for WWWF, which is only cult size company in the mod.

[shipshirt]

I think the mask has to be factored in though. Especially in cases where it really became the majority of the career like Wrestling II, Santo, Destroyers, Superstar. The mask is a gimmick in itself but upped the star quality and presence of those wrestlers. It certainly didn't do it for every masked wrestler but definitely for an elite few. Much like The Undertaker (or even Kane to a lesser degree). As Mark Callous he didn't have much presence but when he became The Undertaker it allowed him to really develop that presence. It seems like in those cases the gimmick and the person combined to create the "star quality".

 

I can see how that would be incredibly hard to recreate in the mid. It would be cool if a wrestler's alter-ego could have a different star quality than the original wrestler. You get a little of that with Gimmick rating but I don't know if it plays in as much as it would in real life

[Mammoth]

I know in reality they are big stars, but I think some mexican wrestlers are too popular in the mod. there are only two recognisable wrestlers in USA, while Mexico has one star and one draw, and three well-knowns. I dont know how popularity and working agreement is related, but as far as I tested, El santo, Ray Mendoza and Mil Maskaras will reject to work for any regional level companies, even with AWA. They will only work for WWWF, which is only cult size company in the mod.

Yeah, this is something that was brought to my attention earlier which I'm still trying to figure out. I'm not exactly sure what leads a worker into thinking a promotion is "too small" for them because if it's popularity, I don't know why they wouldn't sign for a North American promotion if they're not that popular in North America. I don't necessarily have a problem with Mexico having more stars or draws than North America because the Mexican's do generally have a greater love for their workers and there are fewer regions they need to be popular in but as you rightly say, they need to be able to sign for regional companies as there is only one cult company. I'll have to do some testing to try and figure it out and if needs be, I'll lower their popularity in Mexico.

 

EDIT: Lowering both Mil Mascaras' and Ray Mendoza's popularity in Mexico to 50/50/75 respectively has done the trick and they'd now sign for the AWA but obviously lowering El Santo to 55/55/80 in Mexico (where Mil Mascaras and Ray Mendoza were previously) hasn't solved anything but I'm reluctant to go any lower because as me and shipshirt have talked about for the last couple of days, he was a huge star. There are a couple of promotions right on the edge of becoming a cult company if handled correctly so maybe leaving El Santo there isn't such a bad thing as he'll obviously be with EMLL at the start of the game and after a couple of months, hopefully people will have more opportunities to sign him if they so choose. In fact, I may put El Santo back up slightly to 60/60/85 (so he's bigger than EMLL) because if he's not going to work for any regional companies anyway, his popularity might as well be more realistic. xD

 

I think the mask has to be factored in though. Especially in cases where it really became the majority of the career like Wrestling II, Santo, Destroyers, Superstar. The mask is a gimmick in itself but upped the star quality and presence of those wrestlers. It certainly didn't do it for every masked wrestler but definitely for an elite few. Much like The Undertaker (or even Kane to a lesser degree). As Mark Callous he didn't have much presence but when he became The Undertaker it allowed him to really develop that presence. It seems like in those cases the gimmick and the person combined to create the "star quality".

 

I can see how that would be incredibly hard to recreate in the mid. It would be cool if a wrestler's alter-ego could have a different star quality than the original wrestler. You get a little of that with Gimmick rating but I don't know if it plays in as much as it would in real life

That's fair enough, I'll look into one or two names and see if I can raise them slightly. Especially in El Santo's case as it seems like I'm going to have to lower his popularity slightly so hopefully I can recompense him with some added star quality.

[lovegun77]

Thats a good news that I can hire Mil Maskaras now!

I am still wating for next update and new faces too.

Killer kahn, El Canek, Dos Caras, Tito Santana, Terry gordy, Enforcer Luciano, killer karl krupp, kingkong bundy, Crusher Blackwell, Wayne Farris, Jay youngblood, Badnews Allen..There are so many wrestlers I want to see in the mod.