TEW2020 Discussion Thread

[steev42]

#26: Pushes & perception

 

One of the reasons I pulled the code apart and rebuilt it was to allow a rethink of some areas, particularly as some features had been in from the very earliest days of the game (and even back to EWR) simply because "that's how they've always been". Today we'll be looking at one of those fundamental changes.

 

In the past, pushes have always been done by picking your desired choice from a list, telling the game how you want the worker to be perceived. This was a system that worked fine, but it was very much a game-y feature rather than being realistic.

 

For TEW2020, we're ripping that system up and going with something far more natural.

 

So, first off, picking pushes from a list is totally gone, as are any related systems (such as auto pushing, complaints about being at the wrong push level, etc). Instead, you will now see a Perception level for each worker.

 

The Perception level, which ranges from Major Star down to Unknown, is how the fans see the worker. It is based on the worker's popularity and current momentum in comparison to the company's popularity. Unlike the old push system, this is not something you can directly edit, but is instead sensitive to how you actually use someone - so if you want to take an Unknown guy and make him into a Major Star you can't just pick it from a list, you need to book him strongly and get him over with the fans.

 

Because momentum plays a key part in how a worker is perceived this makes Perception far more volatile than pushes, so a worker can get hot and jump up a level or two and then go back down as he cools. This makes the roster more dynamic.

 

Of course, one major advantage of this new system is that it opens up the opportunity for fans to simply not take to a worker (or conversely to latch on to someone you weren't counting on) much more than in previous games - although you can of course try and book your way around any unexpected result.

 

Looking at the Perception gives the user a clear view of what effect that worker is having. A Major Star is somebody who you know is going to "move the needle" when it comes to attendances and ratings, whereas your Unknowns, however talented they may be, simply haven't connected with the fan base yet. This makes it more intuitive for users to get a feel for their roster.

 

Perception applies to everyone on the roster, which has the added advantage that it allows any divisions to be automatically taken into account - for example, unlike previous games where a women's division was a single push, in TEW2020 you could have a whole range of different Perceptions within the women.

 

Unlike the push system, Perceptions are absolute. That is, how the worker is perceived is not calculated in relation to the rest of the roster. This means that unlike previous games you don't have to have a certain roster "shape" - you could have an entire roster of Major Stars, or only Major Stars and Unknowns and nobody in between. This makes things considerably easier for database makers to put workers in their "correct" place on the roster without needing to fudge values.

 

It should be noted that although workers do take into account Perceptions when making decisions, they also still know their popularity too. So if you have one worker who is 10 popularity across the US and one who is 40 popularity, both working for a company that is 80 popularity, both would probably be Unknown to the fans but the second worker would still "know" that he's significantly higher up the food chain. So although Perceptions flattens out the roster in terms of the number of tiers, it doesn't make the game less detailed or nuanced.

 

So, overall, this makes the game more realistic both in terms of how booking impacts workers and how momentum affects the fans' view, removes a lot of annoyances regarding the necessity of auto-pushing and dealing with push-based complaints, takes away a lot of clicking and general admin work from the user due to the feature's automatic nature, makes database creation significantly easier, and allows women's division (and non-wrestlers) to be better integrated into the roster.

 

Going back to one of the older entries here, because I had some thoughts. This entry really only applies to the in-ring pushes; the current Main Event/Upper Midcard/etc. How are the out-of-ring pushes being done?

 

I am asking, because I was thinking how nice it would be to have some of my better road agents (who are currently pushed otherwise; in ring or manager) to be automatically selected. I was thinking that instead of pushes for these, there would just be checkboxes for "add to road agent pool" and probably "add to referee pool", that would allow them to be selected automatically when making matches while still having their other push.

 

I'd make this a suggestion, but since I don't know how the out of ring pushes are working right now, I don't know if it would be relatively simple or completely ridiculous.

[akokulit]

Will there be a freebird rule this incoming version?

[TheJG]

LOVE that idea of someone defending a title 10 times to earn a cool little note in the annals of history. That's a really neat touch.

 

Same, such a cool little feature. At the moment the game considers a 5x champion as more impressive than someone who has held the title for 5 years, so this is great.

 

I initially thought 10 defenses may be too few, but looking through the Triple Crown and IWGP defenses, only 4 reigns have had 10 or more, so 10 seems a fair number.

[merrykieran2]

LOVE that idea of someone defending a title 10 times to earn a cool little note in the annals of history. That's a really neat touch.

 

I feel like this should be either 10 defences or a certain amount of time. Maybe 2 years or something like that because I have had reigns that lasted multiple years in companies like MAW where they had a defense every couple of months

[cappyboy]

In a similar vein, a new calendar has been introduced that gives a "desktop diary" style view where you can see three months at once where all the events and TV shows you have are shown. This gives the user an instant overview and is much handier when planning ahead during booking, advance booking, etc, scheduling, etc. To avoid confusion, the old calendar is now simply called Availability, the new "desktop diary" one is called Calendar.

 

Color me intrigued. This is not quite the answer I would have dreamed of to solve the advance booking problem. But if I'm understanding it correctly it is still an upgrade on what we've had the last couple games. Am I correct in thinking that you do the mass bookings as you do know and then everything will be separated by show in this calendar? Or are we just talking event and show titles? If it's the former, this could be good. If it's the latter, then I feel horribly, horribly teased.

[Bad Collin]

I agree, if we can pre book months in advance in game this is going to be my favourite new feature.

[soxfan93]

Color me intrigued. This is not quite the answer I would have dreamed of to solve the advance booking problem. But if I'm understanding it correctly it is still an upgrade on what we've had the last couple games. Am I correct in thinking that you do the mass bookings as you do know and then everything will be separated by show in this calendar? Or are we just talking event and show titles? If it's the former, this could be good. If it's the latter, then I feel horribly, horribly teased.

 

Cappyboy, I'm right there with you. This is the second time I've seen you bring this up in recent weeks, and I myself have suggested this a couple times, as well. Three months is a wonderful improvement. Now we just hope for the PM Phase-style booking screen!

[nerodragomir1]

Same, such a cool little feature. At the moment the game considers a 5x champion as more impressive than someone who has held the title for 5 years, so this is great.

 

I initially thought 10 defenses may be too few, but looking through the Triple Crown and IWGP defenses, only 4 reigns have had 10 or more, so 10 seems a fair number.

 

I thought the same thing for a second. But in my NJPW saves. Heavyweight champions usually defend the title 4 or 5 times at most in a years time. Usually WK, Defense against the New Japan cup winner, maybe a rando after the BOSJ tournament & finally on anyone he lost to during the G1. So 10 should theoretically be like a 2 year reign as well. WWE mite be a different story though.

[EricSpade]

10 defenses is a very fair number for the Epic Reigns. I did some research (and excluded house show title defenses since those don't happen in TEW).

For the WWE Championship, 20 out of 136 reigns would qualify.

WWE World Heavyweight title, it was 2 out of 55.

WCW World title, it is 3 out of 64.

NWA World title (counting the TNA and WCW years), it is 45 out of 96, which is almost half.

ECW World title, it is 11 out of 33.

ROH World title has 14 out of 30 qualifying, so another where it's almost half.

IWGP Heavyweight title is 3 out of 69.

GHC Heavyweight title is 2 out of 32.

AJPW Triple Crown is only 1 out of 62.

AAA Mega title is 1 out of 17.

 

So for most companies, it really is a rare feat to have an "Epic Reign" and then there are a few outliers where it is a bit more common.

[gazwefc83]

I can't wait for the reveal of the work pic sizes. The earlier the better so I can start getting a megapack together.

[Adam Ryland]

I can't wait for the reveal of the work pic sizes. The earlier the better so I can start getting a megapack together.

 

There's not going to be a reveal - it's already been confirmed that the picture sizes are the same.

[gazwefc83]

There's not going to be a reveal - it's already been confirmed that the picture sizes are the same.

 

Oh right, sorry. Thought it had been confirmed that larger pictures were being used like in wmma. Thanks for clearing that up.

[nerodragomir1]

10 defenses is a very fair number for the Epic Reigns. I did some research (and excluded house show title defenses since those don't happen in TEW).

For the WWE Championship, 20 out of 136 reigns would qualify.

WWE World Heavyweight title, it was 2 out of 55.

WCW World title, it is 3 out of 64.

NWA World title (counting the TNA and WCW years), it is 45 out of 96, which is almost half.

ECW World title, it is 11 out of 33.

ROH World title has 14 out of 30 qualifying, so another where it's almost half.

IWGP Heavyweight title is 3 out of 69.

GHC Heavyweight title is 2 out of 32.

AJPW Triple Crown is only 1 out of 62.

AAA Mega title is 1 out of 17.

 

So for most companies, it really is a rare feat to have an "Epic Reign" and then there are a few outliers where it is a bit more common.

 

I love that you took the time to post this!

 

NWA isn't as much of a surprise, as it is just a showcase for how often they defend the title & have somewhat lengthy reigns. Japan is a weird case because title defenses are not an every month thing. I've seen periods of time where they didn't defend the title for like 6 months. "If I recall correctly."

 

I know this isn't the thread to have this convo so Imma shut up now.

[WCGreyghost]

That seems like a needlessly hostile response...

 

But the requirements that I found, on the 2016 page for Greydog Software:

 

Minimum System Requirements

 

Operating System: Windows XP

CPU: Pentium II (or equivelant) 800mhz or higher

Memory: 128MB RAM

Hard Disk Space: 150MB for install, additional space for saved games

Audio System: Windows compatible sound card, plus the newest version of Windows Media Player

Video System: 1024×768 display capable of running 16-bit color of higher

Optimal System Requirements

 

Operating System: Windows 10, 7 or XP

CPU: Pentium III class (or equivelant) 2GHz or higher

Memory: 512 MB RAM or higher

Video System: 1024×768 display capable of running 32-bit color mode

 

I didn't mean to sound hostile. I was actually attempting humor. Guess it sounded funnier in my head.

 

But thanks for this answer. It's exactly what I wanted--I am not a tech guy, and the last version of the game I owned was on a computer that died before I got the one that is currently dying. Laptops tend to bounce around in my briefcase and otherwise get abused, so they don't last too long.

[Crossface]

Really excited for the game! Any chance Adam might share some screenshots in the developer's diary? It'd be really cool to get a feel for some of the new game screens! <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />

[BuddyGarner]

<p><p>With the fixed products, glad to see penalties for outlier wrestlers and matches be lessened.</p><p> </p><p></p><p>

I want to be able to hold occasional ladder, comedy, T&A, and death matches.</p><p> </p><p></p><p>

Maybe it could be like gimmicks. You don't book a match that you know isn't going to work. It automatically gets tailored to the product. So a family friendly T&a is a lot different than a risqué T&A. Same with death matches, etc.</p><p> </p><p></p><p>

Comedy would be different for a pure fed than a regular fed.</p></p>

[TheJG]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="EricSpade" data-cite="EricSpade" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>10 defenses is a very fair number for the Epic Reigns. I did some research (and excluded house show title defenses since those don't happen in TEW).<p> For the WWE Championship, 20 out of 136 reigns would qualify.</p><p> WWE World Heavyweight title, it was 2 out of 55.</p><p> WCW World title, it is 3 out of 64.</p><p> NWA World title (counting the TNA and WCW years), it is 45 out of 96, which is almost half.</p><p> ECW World title, it is 11 out of 33.</p><p> ROH World title has 14 out of 30 qualifying, so another where it's almost half.</p><p> IWGP Heavyweight title is 3 out of 69.</p><p> GHC Heavyweight title is 2 out of 32.</p><p> AJPW Triple Crown is only 1 out of 62.</p><p> AAA Mega title is 1 out of 17.</p><p> </p><p> So for most companies, it really is a rare feat to have an "Epic Reign" and then there are a few outliers where it is a bit more common.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Very cool. Out of interest, where did you find the stats for this? When I made my post I attempted to find them, especially for the WWE title, but couldn't find anything.</p><p> </p><p> I'm curious if lesser promotions will qualify. Just checking on Cagematch and looking at Matt Taven, his most recent ROH World Title run will qualify as an epic title run with 11 defences, but it's ROH, which is in the doldrums right now. In real life it wouldn't hold the same weight as, for example, Okada's 2 year reign with 12 defences. I'm curious if the game will weigh that up or if it will just be a standard "10 defences and you're in" type thing.</p>

[Everything Ken]

Very cool. Out of interest, where did you find the stats for this? When I made my post I attempted to find them, especially for the WWE title, but couldn't find anything.

 

I'm curious if lesser promotions will qualify. Just checking on Cagematch and looking at Matt Taven, his most recent ROH World Title run will qualify as an epic title run with 11 defences, but it's ROH, which is in the doldrums right now. In real life it wouldn't hold the same weight as, for example, Okada's 2 year reign with 12 defences. I'm curious if the game will weigh that up or if it will just be a standard "10 defences and you're in" type thing.

 

I imagine it will be major promotions because the Hall of Immortals in 2016 only counted major titles from, I think national promotions and up.

[liontamer420]

Copywritten gimmicks

 

Its only a small thing and probably not too important but i always thought a good feature would be companies or wrestlers being able to own a gimmick.

 

This would add a little realism, real life examples being scott hall and kevin nash not carrying the razor and diesel gimmicks over to wcw, or more currently the way wwe rebrand and name most guys before they debut.

 

Then companies could possibly choose to buy the gimmick off other companies or create theyre own, and some guys gimmick could be public domain and end up a free for all ala doink

[d12345]

Its only a small thing and probably not too important but i always thought a good feature would be companies or wrestlers being able to own a gimmick.

 

This is actually in the game already. A worker's character can be set to be only used by a specific company or in a specific game area.

[EricSpade]

Very cool. Out of interest, where did you find the stats for this? When I made my post I attempted to find them, especially for the WWE title, but couldn't find anything.

 

I'm curious if lesser promotions will qualify. Just checking on Cagematch and looking at Matt Taven, his most recent ROH World Title run will qualify as an epic title run with 11 defences, but it's ROH, which is in the doldrums right now. In real life it wouldn't hold the same weight as, for example, Okada's 2 year reign with 12 defences. I'm curious if the game will weigh that up or if it will just be a standard "10 defences and you're in" type thing.

 

I used Cagematch.net to do the research, it's the most comprehensive database I've been able to find out there, so I use it for almost all my wrestling research.

 

Adam indicated that Epic Reigns would count towards each promotions Hall of Fames too, so lesser promotions will probably take them into account when qualifying for their HOF, while any Epic Reigns with major titles in larger promotions (i.e. in WWE, NJPW, etc) will count towards the Hall of Immortals. Just my guess anyway.

[nerodragomir1]

Really excited for the game! Any chance Adam might share some screenshots in the developer's diary? It'd be really cool to get a feel for some of the new game screens!

 

That would be really cool. Maybe get a look at how the U.I has changed. I know he's spoke a bunch about how he's trying to make everything much less "click intensive." So I'd like to see it.

[Nedew]

I'd imagine screenshots wouldn't even be possible right now, or at least not very representative. 'Full' design (the shiny stuff) is usually one of the last things to happen. Right now, I'd imagine the game looks like a lot of grey empty boxes on a grey empty background.

[nerodragomir1]

I'd imagine screenshots wouldn't even be possible right now, or at least not very representative. 'Full' design (the shiny stuff) is usually one of the last things to happen. Right now, I'd imagine the game looks like a lot of grey empty boxes on a grey empty background.

 

Yeah, thats true. I'm the kinda guy that loves looking at beta stuff in games. So seeing the evolution of changes or alterations is something I find cool to look at. Then again, it's probably just empty, grey boxes like you said.

[LoganRodzen]

C'mon Adam! Don't tease CVerse spoilers and then take it off the table. That was like a dagger to the heart!!