The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[djthefunkchris]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="jjohns44" data-cite="jjohns44" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>man I want people to go back to hating Cena again. He would get booed out the wazoo a couple of years ago. And WTF they are STILL using WHAT every time some says something? I bet like 98% of those people in the arena don't even know where that came from. It happened like 8 years ago, GET OVER IT!<p> </p><p> Next time I got to a live event that involves Cena talking I'm just gonna sit there and go WHAT everytime he talks. That's what I was doing while watching the show..</p></div></blockquote> Actually, WWE fans have been around for a long time, and those that are too young to know about "What" were probably told by family member's that were.<p> </p><p> Steve Austin, isn't exactly an unknown in Wrestling. I don't know about you, but asking for people to "forget" the "What" thing, to me is like asking for them to forget the "Whoo!" thing. </p><p> </p><p> I don't understand why your upset that Cena isn't getting boo'd (although he still does depending on where they are)? He is probably starting to be one of the more respected wrestler's on WWE's roster, even by alot of the reviewer's who seemed to hate him three years ago. Some people just don't know when to quit. He's more then payed his dues, and he really could leave at any time to make movies. He might not be as successfull as the Rock if he did, but he sure does have the potential, as well as the popularity to get roles (outside of WWE films).</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="DeadCeleb" data-cite="DeadCeleb" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>so, you want people to get over saying what, yet you'll do it next time you're at a live event?<p> </p><p> <img alt=":rolleyes:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/rolleyes.png.4b097f4fbbe99ce5bcd5efbc1b773ed6.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p></div></blockquote><p> I was thinking the same thing when I first read it, but sarcasm on top of sarcasm lose's some of the funny in it (especially if it wasn't funny in the first place). Then again, maybe he wasn't being sarcastic, how would I know? LOL</p>

[PeterHilton]

<p>To be fair, everything on Raw has been god awful boring and repetitive for almost two years. </p><p> </p><p>

Cena's still the biggest draw in the company and the storylines aren't his fault, but I honestly can't remember the last time I found his character entertaining.</p>

[djthefunkchris]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="PeterHilton" data-cite="PeterHilton" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>To be fair, everything on Raw has been god awful boring and repetitive for almost two years. <p> </p><p> Cena's still the biggest draw in the company and the storylines aren't his fault, but I honestly can't remember the last time I found his character entertaining.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The only way I think I will even like his character, is if he goes heel. </p><p> </p><p> But yeah, I agree with you overall. Just the "What" doesn't seem like something that will ever go away, and the boo'ing of Cena actually does still go on (just I guess not during that one show).</p>

[SaySo]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="PeterHilton" data-cite="PeterHilton" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>To be fair, everything on Raw has been god awful boring and repetitive for almost two years. <p> </p><p> Cena's still the biggest draw in the company and the storylines aren't his fault, but I honestly can't remember the last time I found his character entertaining.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> You know what's god awful and repetitive, hearing people complain about it. You think it would make folks find another thing to watch so they can forget about it.</p>

[PeterHilton]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="SaySo" data-cite="SaySo" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You know what's god awful and repetitive, hearing people complain about it. You think it would make folks find another thing to watch so they can forget about it.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Who says I watch Raw? I can usually catch the first ten minutes or so and decide whether to stay tuned in.</p>

[SaySo]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="PeterHilton" data-cite="PeterHilton" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Who says I watch Raw? I can usually catch the first ten minutes or so and decide whether to stay tuned in.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Why even devote 10 minutes when you already know what is coming. It's a waste of 10 minutes. It's better to find something else. It's repetitive, god awful...but you already know that. So stop giving them ratings.</p>

[PeterHilton]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="SaySo" data-cite="SaySo" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Why even devote 10 minutes when you already know what is coming. It's a waste of 10 minutes. It's better to find something else. It's repetitive, god awful...but you already know that. So stop giving them ratings.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I don't have a Nielsen box attached to my TV. How am I giving them ratings?</p><p> </p><p> I tune in because I like wrestling (still DVR SD), I want to like Raw, and usually not much is going on at 6 pm (i have DirecTV so I get the East Coast feed)</p><p> </p><p> I give a try...if nothing about the show perks my interest I find something else to do. </p><p> </p><p> The point I'm making is, I can go weeks at a time without watching an entire episode of Raw, and not miss a thing. That not entertaining imo.</p>

[jbergey_2005]

SaySo says so you better listen Peter Hilton;)

[Astil]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="PeterHilton" data-cite="PeterHilton" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I don't have a Nielsen box attached to my TV. How am I giving them ratings?<p> </p><p> I tune in because I like wrestling (still DVR SD), I want to like Raw, and usually not much is going on at 6 pm (i have DirecTV so I get the East Coast feed)</p><p> </p><p> I give a try...if nothing about the show perks my interest I find something else to do. </p><p> </p><p> The point I'm making is, I can go weeks at a time without watching an entire episode of Raw, and not miss a thing. That not entertaining imo.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I agree with you on that last paragraph. To much repetitive booking, imho.</p>

[d_w_w]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="SaySo" data-cite="SaySo" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You know what's god awful and repetitive, hearing people complain about it. You think it would make folks find another thing to watch so they can forget about it.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> <img alt=":rolleyes:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/rolleyes.png.4b097f4fbbe99ce5bcd5efbc1b773ed6.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="SaySo" data-cite="SaySo" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Why even devote 10 minutes when you already know what is coming. It's a waste of 10 minutes. It's better to find something else. It's repetitive, god awful...but you already know that. So stop giving them ratings.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Heaven forbid someone gives 10 minutes of their time to the WWE in the hope that they'll enjoy wrestling again. </p><p> </p><p> Heaven forbid that people express their dissatisfaction in a thread intended for discussion of the WWE.</p><p> </p><p> <img alt=":rolleyes:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/rolleyes.png.4b097f4fbbe99ce5bcd5efbc1b773ed6.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />:rolleyes:</p>

[djthefunkchris]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="SaySo" data-cite="SaySo" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Why even devote 10 minutes when you already know what is coming. It's a waste of 10 minutes. It's better to find something else. It's repetitive, god awful...but you already know that. So stop giving them ratings.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> He said he found it repetitive. It doesn't mean he's saying that they are doing the same thing today they did 10 years ago, although in some ways they could be. Well, he clarified it anyways, he's talking about he can probably catch one show a month, and keep up with the whole thing without loss in storyline, etc.</p><p> </p><p> I'm more into WWE then any other wrestling, and I can admit that this is true. I don't even watch RAW most of the time anyways, because my job conflicts (I work when RAW comes on). The few times I have been able to catch it, I have caught up without a problem.</p><p> </p><p> I'd like to add though, that my favorite brand is ECW, not RAW (or Smackdown). RAW has been my least favorite of the brands for a while now. The show to me is always going to be the "Safe" show, meaning they will always stay within' certain limits on that show, as it's their "Primary" show.</p>

[Self]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="djthefunkchris" data-cite="djthefunkchris" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The only way I think I will even like his character, is if he goes heel. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Every time I hear people say this it just... In my mind, the definition of a 'Heel' is a character who is designed to be hated. His role, his job, is to be hated. So when people say that they'd only 'like' someone if they went heel (and I hear it a lot, about Cena, Batista, Undertaker, Triple H, once about Jeff Hardy) it grinds my gears.</p><p> </p><p> Not that it's the fan's fault. Well, partly it is, smarks seem to gleefully prefer heels (Note to Self: conduct psychological survey about why that is) but mostly it's WWE's fault. Their babyfaces are so restricted and bland that the Heels shine ever so brightly. It's not even WWE's fault. Look at Hollywood action movies. The villains are always the most fun. The lack of morallity. The raging id. It's wish-fulfilment at it's finest.</p><p> </p><p> As I'm in danger of answering my own question, I'll conclude. I maintain that John Cena shouldn't turn heel. He should twist sideways, find an interesting, fun new level to his character and stay babyface, but with a new edge.</p><p> </p><p> P.S. Caylen Croft got new gear, but it inexplicably doesn't match Trent Baretta's. The mind boggles. The music still rules.</p>

[djthefunkchris]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Self" data-cite="Self" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Every time I hear people say this it just... In my mind, the definition of a 'Heel' is a character who is designed to be hated. His role, his job, is to be hated. So when people say that they'd only 'like' someone if they went heel (and I hear it a lot, about Cena, Batista, Undertaker, Triple H, once about Jeff Hardy) it grinds my gears.<p> </p><p> Not that it's the fan's fault. Well, partly it is, smarks seem to gleefully prefer heels (Note to Self: conduct psychological survey about why that is) but mostly it's WWE's fault. Their babyfaces are so restricted and bland that the Heels shine ever so brightly. It's not even WWE's fault. Look at Hollywood action movies. The villains are always the most fun. The lack of morallity. The raging id. It's wish-fulfilment at it's finest.</p><p> </p><p> As I'm in danger of answering my own question, I'll conclude. I maintain that John Cena shouldn't turn heel. He should twist sideways, find an interesting, fun new level to his character and stay babyface, but with a new edge.</p><p> </p><p> P.S. Caylen Croft got new gear, but it inexplicably doesn't match Trent Baretta's. The mind boggles. The music still rules.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> /nod. The fact is, I need a totally different John Cena, heel is the fastest way to do that.</p><p> </p><p> I think I would appreciate the character more if he had a chip on his shoulder... in this spot I had wrote probably close to two good paragraphs, and decided it can be said without so many words. I would book Cena as the Superman they have made him out to be. I'd have some kryptonite for him every now and then, but if he's not going to change sides, he needs to be seen as a "Face" threat, to anyone (heel or face), at all times, and shown to be intimidating to everyone at all times. IF Big Show or Jericho is out there bad talking him, and his music hits, they need to clear the ring ASAP and act as though they are not willing to confront him. People like Undertaker and possibly Kane should be the only one's that even act as though they think they have a chance (not in talking, but in Action). </p><p> </p><p> IF not for the position they (WWE) put him in, I wouldn't feel this way. However, your going to make a Superman, you need to make a Superman and quit with the underdog crap, because that is boring and uninteresting (at least to me) at this point. He needs a change, period.</p>

[MrCanada]

CHARLIE HAAS IS GOD!

 

WWE star Charlie Haas asked for his release from WWE several months ago. However, as opposed to granting that release, WWE actually re-signed Haas and gave him a raise, even though he hasn't been used on TV in a long while. The belief is that Kurt Angle had something in mind for Charlie Haas in TNA, and WWE wanted to avoid having him jump ship to the competition, so they re-signed him, gave him a raise, and are basically "benching him."

 

Courtesy of the Wrestlingobsever.com

 

Too good to let go, but too bad to get a push? Get a clue WWE.

 

Haas is the man, I still believe the Haas of Pain is the sickest looking submission of all time. I wish he would end up on ECW. He would be a great mentor. At least throw him down in FCW and teach new guys how to wrestle.

[thatoneguy]

I'm kind of curious and really hoping you guys can provide an answer for me. How is it that Cena is always "carryable" but never "good"? I mean, really? If he was only having good matches with Michaels and Taker I could understand the thought. But when he's having absolutely fantastic matches against Orton, Umaga, Edge, Punk, and putting out good matches against Show, HHH, and even pulling a decent match out of Khali. When does the IWC finally accept him as a legitimately talented performer?

[djthefunkchris]

I'm kind of curious and really hoping you guys can provide an answer for me. How is it that Cena is always "carryable" but never "good"? I mean, really? If he was only having good matches with Michaels and Taker I could understand the thought. But when he's having absolutely fantastic matches against Orton, Umaga, Edge, Punk, and putting out good matches against Show, HHH, and even pulling a decent match out of Khali. When does the IWC finally accept him as a legitimately talented performer?

 

The problem is they would have to admit to being wrong about him, so I doubt that will happen, at least not in the next five/ten years, lol.

 

I know alot of folks who would agree that Cena has actually done alot of "carrying" himself. For those that are better then him, he holds his own with them, and they get as much as they give ussually. SO really, it's up to his opponant if they want a "Good" match, or a "Great" match, because he seems always willing to do the best of his ability to make it happen.

 

To me, HBK vs Cena was a perfect example of two people really willing to make each other look the best they can possibly look, ending up with a match of the year on a normal show. Some argue that is because they had to fill in time, but good lord, look what they did with that "filler"!

[PeterHilton]

I'm kind of curious and really hoping you guys can provide an answer for me. How is it that Cena is always "carryable" but never "good"? I mean, really? If he was only having good matches with Michaels and Taker I could understand the thought. But when he's having absolutely fantastic matches against Orton, Umaga, Edge, Punk, and putting out good matches against Show, HHH, and even pulling a decent match out of Khali. When does the IWC finally accept him as a legitimately talented performer?

 

You're asking a lot of impossible questions in there.

 

I think it's pretty obvious that Cena is good worker in the ring.

 

The problem is that most people in the "IWC" think that being a good worker means you have a giant list of moves and technical savvy; almost by default they dismiss anyone who works the WWE style.

 

Or to put it in TEW terms..brawlers will never get their due.

[lazorbeak]

Anybody watch Smackdown last week? I only caught part of it but I saw John Morrison's confrontation with Drew McIntyre where he showed up dressed as Braveheart (complete with sword) and cut a pretty outstanding promo. Seriously if this guy isn't in a world title picture by this time next year somebody massively dropped the ball.

[thatoneguy]

If JoMo can keep up the above average promos he should be, but most of the time he just doesn't cut it on the mic. He and Drew...I'm not even going to try to spell his last name right now because I'm positive I'll get it wrong, have good chemistry. Let's hope that shows up at TLC too.

[benjacko]

Anyone else noticed the clashing heads in the corner spot that seems to be in most WWE matches now? Don't remember that happening at all before but it's rampant at the moment

[Tha Black Phenom]

Likewise, I've noticed the lack of low blows or referee bumps. Those have been dwindled for a good while now, still -sigh-

[Wrestling Century]

Likewise, I've noticed the lack of low blows or referee bumps. Those have been dwindled for a good while now, still -sigh-

 

A good heel always needs to cheat during ref bumps! Maybe that's why even the heels are starting to get boring to me in WWE. They don't cheat enough during the matches (or they don't cheat in the right ways during matches. I mean really, a chair to get disqualified? It's not cheating if you always get caught!).

[Self]

Anyone else noticed the clashing heads in the corner spot that seems to be in most WWE matches now? Don't remember that happening at all before but it's rampant at the moment

 

Kinda like the miss-a-charge-and-ram-into-the-turnbuckle-then-get-finished finish from a little while ago.

 

A good heel always needs to cheat during ref bumps! Maybe that's why even the heels are starting to get boring to me in WWE. They don't cheat enough during the matches (or they don't cheat in the right ways during matches. I mean really, a chair to get disqualified? It's not cheating if you always get caught!).

 

I'm more of the opposite viewpoint. If 99% of matches end clean, then when someone does cheat to win, it's really dastardly. If 99% of matches have the heels cheating, then no one is going to care when someone low blows John Cena and steals the title. The key is moderation.

 

Thumbs to the eye. Back rakes. Foot stomps. Using the ropes for added leverage during an abdominal stretch. These are good forms of cheating though. We need a couple of guys doing old school stuff like that.

[lazorbeak]

Kinda like the miss-a-charge-and-ram-into-the-turnbuckle-then-get-finished finish from a little while ago.

 

 

 

I'm more of the opposite viewpoint. If 99% of matches end clean, then when someone does cheat to win, it's really dastardly. If 99% of matches have the heels cheating, then no one is going to care when someone low blows John Cena and steals the title. The key is moderation.

 

Thumbs to the eye. Back rakes. Foot stomps. Using the ropes for added leverage during an abdominal stretch. These are good forms of cheating though. We need a couple of guys doing old school stuff like that.

 

Completely agree. If Mike Knox cheats to win his match, it makes CM Punk's cheating in the main event or on pay per view lose some importance (I hate to use Knox but with Escobar turning face I can't think of a lower midcard heel). My favorite things about heels like Jericho though is not only does he cheat, but when he's not cheating he wants the rules enforced to the letter.

[ampulator]

The problem is they would have to admit to being wrong about him, so I doubt that will happen, at least not in the next five/ten years, lol.

 

I know alot of folks who would agree that Cena has actually done alot of "carrying" himself. For those that are better then him, he holds his own with them, and they get as much as they give ussually. SO really, it's up to his opponant if they want a "Good" match, or a "Great" match, because he seems always willing to do the best of his ability to make it happen.

 

To me, HBK vs Cena was a perfect example of two people really willing to make each other look the best they can possibly look, ending up with a match of the year on a normal show. Some argue that is because they had to fill in time, but good lord, look what they did with that "filler"!

I will never admit I'm wrong about Cena, because I'm not wrong about Cena. Bottomline.

 

The problem isn't that he's bad, but the fact he's simply not good enough. In fact, I don't find him carryable at all. His matches usually range from typically boring to typically bad. Other than his looks, there's nothing that's good about him. Charisma? Please, there's people with better charisma than he has. Mic Skills? Same thing. Wrestling? I don't even need to discuss that. Athleticism? Come on.

 

He's not bad, but he's not good either. He's just average. He deserves to be in the midcard/lower midcard at best. He nowhere deserves the defenses he has.

 

If you like him, fine, but don't try to say he's good, because he isn't. Name one Cena match being good where you can attribute it to Cena, and not because of the match gimmick, or the other wrestler. I can't.

 

In fact, the HBK Vs. Cena match sucked. And don't even mention the RAW match to me, because it was pretty much a "make-up" for the match before. If Cena could do half of what he did in that RAW match against HBK on every other PPV, then I wouldn't be complaining, would I?