RW Forced Chemistry Discussion

[The Phenom]

Sure. Elizabeth added nothing - literally, as she rarely spoke and just stood at ringside - to Macho Man's interviews or matches. If they had chemistry then, by definition, he'd have been worse when she wasn't his manager, and that simply isn't true. She enhanced his storylines - occasionally - by giving him someone to be protective over, but anyone could have played that role (up to and including a convincing mannequin) with the same results. I'm hard pressed to think of a more useless manager in the entire history of pro wrestling that Elizabeth, so to have her having chemistry with anyone is utterly and completely bizarre.

 

If The NAO had good chemistry then, by definition, they'd have been significantly better in tag team matches when together than with other partners. I can't see any way you'd be able to make a convincing argument that the NAO had better quality matches than Gunn managed with any of his other ten billion tag team partners, because they were all pretty mediocre. Same with Road Dogg - having Gunn at his side didn't suddenly cause him to have fantastic matches, he wrestled at pretty much exactly the same quality he always did.

 

You can pretty much take the above argument word-for-word for the Dudleys too. Are they firing out significantly better matches when together than they could manage with other partners? And if so, given how abysmal their in-ring work is, exactly what levels of suckitude would they then be responsible for? As with NAO, you seem to be badly confusing popularity with ring work. Are the Dudleys more popular together than not? Yeah...but that has nothing to do with their ring work and all to do with their history and well known double team spots.

 

I think you just made a great case for why your definition of chemistry doesn't work. Because if the NAO don't have good chemistry then no team does.

 

You say the Dudley's do not have better ringwork with one another and their popularity is due to their well known spots and that is all true. But that does not describe the Outlaws at all. Billy had been a 1000 teams (and a 1000 more since) and Road Dogg was a nobody, but put together they went from floundering, to overnight sensations. They didn't have anything established as they were just starting out, and yet it just clicked. And their matches in their early run, with the Road Warriors and Foley and Funk, are easily the best work they had done prior or since.

 

The fact that these got over immediately when paired together, and could never get even close apart shows their chemistry together, because it certainty wasn't for a lack of trying by the WWF to get Billy over. It just so happened that they complimented each other in ways that can't be calculated.

[BuddyGarner]

Tag Team Experience not enough?

 

 

Not to use Larry Vessey no. Not to mark out when you've finally reunited Narato and Ota or Teddy Powell and Sammy Bach.

[Dell_Diddy]

Tag Teams w/ Good Chemistry

 

Well, to stay on topic (LOL),...

 

As this could potentially be a very long and very dull discussion, please keep discussion about who would qualify for forced chemistry in real world mods in this thread - that way you won't clog up the journal discussion.

 

I would say:

 

Hawk & Animal - The Road Warriors.

Ricky Morton & Robert Gibson - The Rock 'n Roll Express

Shawn Michaels & Marty Janetty - The Rockers

Jeff Hardy & Matt Hardy - The Hardy Boyz

Ole Anderson & Arn Anderson

Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard

 

Reason: I could not see replacing one of them with another wrestler and the level of performance (as a tag team) constantly being anywhere close to being as high.

 

Note - Ole Andrerson/Arn Anderson and Arn Anderson/Tully Blanchard were two completely different styles of tag team. That's why my reasoning still applies.

[djthefunkchris]

DOTT is in good hands then if you are the one taking it into TEW 2010. I agree completely that forced chemistry should be used in only extreme cases.

 

I'm not planning on it. I'm hoping that something lights a fire under the one and only true master of the DOTT mod. I do know who I would hand pick for a team though (and two of them have diary's going).

 

I know the love of D. Boon's Ghost is Wrestling Spirit, and I'm hoping that the creativity/desire is there for the third installment of that game, soon. I don't know if it would matter/make him want to engage in a massive DOTT mod for TEW again, but I know it couldn't hurt, having an upgrade of his favorite GDS game.

 

If worse comes to worse though, there are some capable people, and people I would like to put in contact with each other (The original team, mixed in with some great picks of my own), that I think would do an incredible job.

 

I'm not as capable as any of them, by myself though. That's a fact I come to realise with DOTT 2008. I'll admit that to anyone. I believe I'm pretty good with game mechanics, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to make the world come alive like the other's are.

[James Casey]

Hawk & Animal - The Road Warriors.

Ricky Morton & Robert Gibson - The Rock 'n Roll Express

Shawn Michaels & Marty Janetty - The Rockers

Jeff Hardy & Matt Hardy - The Hardy Boyz

Ole Anderson & Arn Anderson

Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard

 

The Rockers: I honestly think any two talented, good looking, charismatic wrestlers could have been in that spot. The Rockers were good, but if they'd been Marty and Eddie Guerrero, say, I don't see their matches being any worse. They had experience, but I wouldn't call it chemistry.

 

The Hardys: Absolutely.

 

Arn Anderson and anyone: Absolutely Arn was the consummate tag wrestler. Bobby Eaton, Larry Zbyszko, Ole Anderson, Tully Blanchard, Barry Windham...

 

Morton and Gibson would be an interesting case. They'd tagged together for so long by the time they hit the big time, a lot of it was experience. But really, I'd say they could have benefitted from chemistry as they did seem to be almost telepathic in the matches I've seen from them. Again, though, they did tend to do the same things week in, week out, so it may have been experience... I don't know on this one

 

I can't imagine why Adam thought this might be tedious

[djthefunkchris]

I can't imagine why Adam thought this might be tedious

 

LOL. Yeah, seems like a cakewalk to me too;).

[Adam Ryland]

I think you just made a great case for why your definition of chemistry doesn't work. Because if the NAO don't have good chemistry then no team does.

 

You say the Dudley's do not have better ringwork with one another and their popularity is due to their well known spots and that is all true. But that does not describe the Outlaws at all. Billy had been a 1000 teams (and a 1000 more since) and Road Dogg was a nobody, but put together they went from floundering, to overnight sensations. They didn't have anything established as they were just starting out, and yet it just clicked. And their matches in their early run, with the Road Warriors and Foley and Funk, are easily the best work they had done prior or since.

 

The fact that these got over immediately when paired together, and could never get even close apart shows their chemistry together, because it certainty wasn't for a lack of trying by the WWF to get Billy over. It just so happened that they complimented each other in ways that can't be calculated.

 

I think you're confusing two entirely different things. There is "chemistry" (from real life) and "TEW chemistry" (in the game). I am not saying that the NAO didn't have "chemistry" - they clearly did, their characters meshed perfectly and was greater than the sum of its parts. What I am saying is that they didn't have "TEW chemistry" - there matches were not significantly better just because they were together.

 

Almost your entire post is about the former, which is therefore irrelevant as that's not what the feature is about - it doesn't matter whether they got over, that's got absolutely zero to do with this definition of chemistry. The part about LOD and Cactus\Funk I'm afraid we'll have to disagree on, as I thought the matches with the former were abysmal, and the latter were not significantly better than I'd have expected had they been teaming with anyone else of similar abilities.

 

In closing, my definition of chemistry from earlier is not meant to be the same as how you would describe chemistry in reality - that wasn't the intention. It's meant to describe how the feature for in-ring chemistry works in the game - and that is not wrong, as given that I wrote it I know exactly how it works.

[Gigas]

Re Billy Gunn, Adam may be right. He did have a good tag team with Chuck too. Although maybe that just means Billy had good chemistry with 2 people or was an Arn Anderson light.

 

Thing is, no one is using the wrong definition. Its just everyone interprets it differently.

 

BOT, You could say Edge and Christian had good tag team chemistry too. Especially if youre including teams like The Rockers. Or Miz and Morrison as someone mentioned earlier.

 

And with teams like the Road Warriors, did they have great chem or just great experience? Do the Demolition have great chemistry too? I think tag team chemistry will end up being the most abused and most debated.

 

Edit: I posted this before Adam went more in depth with TEW chemistry. Makes more sense why NAO wouldnt have good chemistry now in TEW terms.

[Dell_Diddy]

The Rockers: I honestly think any two talented, good looking, charismatic wrestlers could have been in that spot. The Rockers were good, but if they'd been Marty and Eddie Guerrero, say, I don't see their matches being any worse. They had experience, but I wouldn't call it chemistry.

 

I see how you wouldn't call it chemistry, based on how long they tagged together, but back when they were on the indy scene as The Midnight Rockers, they just 'clicked' almost immediately and worked so well together, I personally have to call it chemistry.

[djthefunkchris]

I see how you wouldn't call it chemistry, based on how long they tagged together, but back when they were on the indy scene as The Midnight Rockers, they just 'clicked' almost immediately and worked so well together, I personally have to call it chemistry.

 

You could go one step farther, and give them good chemistry, give HBK high potential and Marty Medium potential, and so on and so on, test and see if you get the results (which is compatible to their real life records) you want.

 

You can "Over-Mod" is my point. I know they were excellent, but I thought CM Punk and Jeff Hardy clicked great as a tag team too, and HHH for that matter (with Jeff). That click isn't enough for me to say they had "Great Chemistry" though. The match's were just well booked in my opinion.

 

Compare wrestling to a dance, and look at what James is bassically saying. IF two people are great dancer's, and you were to replace one with another great dancer, would it be that different? Would it make one of them less/more succesfull. Would HBK and anyone with compatible skill, be any worse, or vice versa?

 

I'm not dissagreeing or agreeing. I feel as though some people are wanting to utilize the feature into things that don't need it.. An "A" skilled tag team doesn't need the added benefit of Great Chemistry to be an "A" skilled tag team. Remember what Adam's "GAME" definition is. Are they considerably BETTER together, or perhaps one enhanced the other because of SKILL moreso then Chemistry?

[BurningHamster]

Alrighty, just read through six pages of confusion having come late to the party.

 

I'm more in the Ryland camp of not being crazy about forced chemistry as I can see a lot of mods which already have minor problems getting a hell of a lot worse with a bunch of very limiting chemistries being added.

 

If I work more on my 96 mod for the next version of TEW more than likely I will ignore this feature or only use it minimally as I am scratching my head about which workers had good chemistry and which workers simply performed well together because of a meshing of their skills without there being anything really special about it.

 

While I think Flair and Steamboat will be the point of reference for this discussion as I would hope almost everyone would agree they had what would be deemed good chemistry in TEW terms, who else fits the bill?

 

Tommy Dreamer/Raven - Chemistry or was this just an epic feud that made people care about the matches?

 

Mike Awesome/Masato Tanaka - Did these guys have chemistry or was it just a matter of their styes meshing. Tanaka was tough enough to take all of Awesome's spots without being so small that he couldn't credibly fire back on Awesome and dish it out. Their matches were good, but it seems like they were above average for Mike Awesome but perhaps not that far above average for Tanaka.

 

Super Crazy/Tajiri - yay or nay?

 

Rey Misterio Jr/Psicosis - These guys probably had some of their best matches against each other. I would lean towards yes on this? Anyone disagree?

 

Foley/Funk - Teammates, not so much. Opponents though? Maybe? Or is it a case of just two good workers who can brawl and that would be enough to account for their matches, particularly the more violent matches, being good?

 

See, these are all guys I am very familiar with yet am having trouble myself deciding on whether they have chemistry. This is kind of why I think I might prefer to have things left to chance.

[James Casey]

Foley/Funk - Teammates, not so much. Opponents though? Maybe? Or is it a case of just two good workers who can brawl and that would be enough to account for their matches, particularly the more violent matches, being good?

 

Partly friendship, and therefore willing to give to each other. Partly they were both bat-poo crazy and therefore they worked well in the deathmatch/hardcore environments where they had the bulk of their matches.

[King Chono]

Honestly after going through my D.o.t.T. game and looking at the workers, when I edit the mod for 2010 I'm going to be adding less than 10 non-neutral chemistries.

 

For good or great, Jumbo Tsuruta vs Genichiro Tenryu. While Jumbo was amazing(I'd say better than Flair or Steamboat), I don't feel he ever had better matches than his matches with Tenryu. I also don't feel Tenryu ever captured the same level of awesome that he did was Tenryu. Now Jumbo had great stats, and Tenryu's aren't bad by around 1987, but I felt all their singles matches were A* quality, which really set them apart from any of Jumbo's or Tenryu's other matches. I assume this is what Good Chemistry would be.

 

Another example I'd give is Misawa and Kawada in a neutral form(Kobashi too). They're matches were great no lie, but they weren't greater than their stats would allow(by the 90's.). They also weren't really that standing out from their work with other guys of equal ability(Taue, Hansen, Jumbo, Fuchi, etc..). Sure Dave Meltzer gave them a bunch of 5 Star ratings, but in all seriousness, almost every single important match on an AJPW card in the 90's got over 4 stars from Meltzer, he was just a mark for head drops. Another example of often mistaken chemistry are Hart vs Michaels, every indy worker vs every indy worker, and Angle vs Benoit.

 

Another example I would give great for is the Road Warriors. While some may not disagree, I've seen both of them work with different partners and the match quality they had was significantly worse. Even Hawk and Power Warrior(Kensuke Sasaki) were pretty meh in comparison to the Road Warriors when it came to feeding off each other. I don't think I have to mention Puke or Heidenreich.

 

Another one I think people would mistake for Chemistry is Dynamite Kid and Bret Hart, or Dynamite Kid and Tiger Mask. The matches these men put on against each other were amazing no doubt, but they weren't outside the limits of what these men could do given the stats they had. Neutral would be another one I'd give here.

 

Randy Savage I would give great chemistry with the Ultimate Warrior. While you may disagree, the only time Warrior has been even MODERATELY watchable was against Savage. Sure there's carrying involved, but I think Savage and Warrior had matches greater than Warrior's stats would lead you to believe he was capable of.

 

My example of bad chemistry(not awful) would be Randy Savage vs Ric Flair. Now on paper that sounds like a possible greatest match of all time, and their stats wouldn't argue either. But I felt these two always underperformed in all of their matches against each other.

 

For awful I'd pick Lex Luger & Davey Boy Smith as a tag team. Individually they're both kind of underrated as wrestlers. Also from what I've seen from all their other tag teams they're not that bad working tag matches. But these two together make me cringe inside and want to break my television forever.

 

I don't know what I'd give Terry Gordy and Michael Hayes, they had great matches and Terry Gordy is great in all tag teams. But Michael Hayes fooking sucks, and teaming with Gordy added a LOT for him and NOTHING for Gordy. Would that be Neutral? Good? Great?

 

But yeah, those are my takes on what good/great/bad/awful/neutral are.

[The Celt]

I'd say Tajiri and Crazy had a good chemistry that Heyman exploited by feud them. Their matches were significantly better than against those of similar opponents.

 

Similarly Awesome/Tanaka must have had a chemistry that FMW exploited and then ECW imported over. They just worked together so well, and FMW specifically put them in a ton of matches together to use that chemistry.

 

Raven and Dreamer i'm a little more sceptical. I'm not sure their matches were more than they were capable of. They were good matches for sure, but looking at their skills they were capable of getting the same match out of over opponents. I think it may have been just good booking.

[jbergey_2005]

 

The varying commentary teams out there are harder to call.... guys like Monsoon and Heenan were always awesome regardless of who they worked with, so it's hard to say if they had good chemistry. I would be tempted to give them a + but it's hard to say for sure because they were top notch on their own anyways and top notch together.

 

(

 

 

 

Completely agree with this. Heenan always stood out on the mic and Gorilla was great with Jesse Ventura as well.

 

You might think Heenan/Gorilla or Jesse/Gorilla had great chemistry but its more likely they were just that good.

[jbergey_2005]

Maria and Cena have great chemistry in more ways the one.

 

Id also say HBK brings out the best in Cena.

[MrCanada]

I think you're confusing two entirely different things. There is "chemistry" (from real life) and "TEW chemistry" (in the game). I am not saying that the NAO didn't have "chemistry" - they clearly did, their characters meshed perfectly and was greater than the sum of its parts. What I am saying is that they didn't have "TEW chemistry" - there matches were not significantly better just because they were together.

 

Almost your entire post is about the former, which is therefore irrelevant as that's not what the feature is about - it doesn't matter whether they got over, that's got absolutely zero to do with this definition of chemistry. The part about LOD and Cactus\Funk I'm afraid we'll have to disagree on, as I thought the matches with the former were abysmal, and the latter were not significantly better than I'd have expected had they been teaming with anyone else of similar abilities.

 

In closing, my definition of chemistry from earlier is not meant to be the same as how you would describe chemistry in reality - that wasn't the intention. It's meant to describe how the feature for in-ring chemistry works in the game - and that is not wrong, as given that I wrote it I know exactly how it works.

 

Well I think by TEW's definition it appears no one really had chemistry. I mean, in reality the argument can be made, and you've been making it, that not many people have chemistry bad or good. However if you play TEW for more then a year game time with a large enough roster, a lot of the workers will have at least one chemistry note about another worker (that is randomly generated). But apparently that doesnt ever really happen? The arguement could be made that Lynn/RVD simply meshed well because their styles/skills were matched very well. Same with Steamboat/Flair, or any body. If anything, I think a lot of these nonsensical arguments have made me believe more and more that Chemistry is kind of useless. A random thing added to change gameplay from game-to-game rather then being a well thought out thing.

 

To me, the way chemistry works in TEW08 is almost as bad as if workers just randomly died, not pending on age or drug use or whatever. Why not make that happen? It would change gameplay from game-to-game. Or what if just randomly throughout he game, stars quit companies for no reason? It would be terrific if your main eventer and title holder just up and left, imagine how difficult it would be to book around that!

 

I realize I'm just ranting, but it seems to me that no one really understands chemistry but Adam and a few others (not that there's anything wrong with that) and even if I believe I now understand it, I think its rubbish as I said above. Which granted is just my opinion. I still love TEW and will buy TEW 10 (I always will buy TEW) but sharing my opinion is just a dumb thing I do, regardless of how uninformed or stupid I sound! haha.

 

EDIT: but I'm off topic.

 

Good Chemistry as opponents:

RVD - Lynn

Steamboat - Flair

HBK - Cena

London - Yang

Punk - Joe

Danielson - Aries

Styles - Low-Ki

[Karl_Kitsch]

I think people are reading too much into Flair/Steamboat. Do not misread me, those are some of the finest wrestling matches of my lifetime and I can watch them any day of the week. BUT, I think people are overestimating the importance of chemistry in that series.

 

Ricky Steamboat was the best babyface of that time. He was good looking but not pretty, tough but not a bully, and he used martial arts but he was recognizably American. Ricky took a Hell of a beating, had excellent babyface offense, and sold like the dickens. Ricky Steamboat was the man when it came to being the soft spoken Billy Jack style face.

 

Ric Flair, well, Ric Flair is the Man. I grew up idolizing him. Even now, knowing too much about who he is off camera, I still revere the man. Ric Flair is everything I love about professional wrestling. He was the best heel in wrestling at the time, and maybe in my lifetime. His arrogance, intentional overselling, and logical heel offense made his matches believable.

 

When the best face of the time and the best heel of the time had hour long matches with each other across the South and all the way up to Chicago, the matches were good. Why wouldn't they be? You had the perfect match up of an arrogant heel and a humble face. These were two masters of their craft facing off. These amazing matches seem like a good argument for chemistry, but I disagree.

 

Ricky Steamboat had a amazing feud with Randy "Macho Man" Savage. This feud resulted in one of the best matches of all time. If Flair/Steamboat was great chemistry, surely this was too? OR is it a function of Ricky Steamboat simply being an amazing wrestler who had great matches with great opponents? If he had whipped out matches like the ones he had with Flair and Savage against the Barbarian, I would consider that great chemistry. Having an awesome match with a talented opponent while wrapped up in a super hot feud is a testament to the workers, not fate.

 

Look at Ric Flair. Flair had the best ten minute match of the 80's with Jerry Lawler. Was that chemistry or just artists at work? What about Flair and Brad Armstrong? Was that great chemistry or was it a veteran face carrying a good, but not great, babyface to the match of his life? Hell, Flair made Sting, who rarely had good matches, look like a million bucks. Better living through chemistry or a master doing what he does best?

 

Honestly, I think that chemistry being trotted out as the reason for great matches is like saying aliens built the pyramids.

[shipshirt]

I'm in the camp of not using this one too much, or at all. Honestly, the best part of this feature is to be able to set neutral chemistry. I agree with the posters that there was too much chemistry, both good and bad, in '08. I would like to see it be rare so when it happend it's special, not where everyone on the roster has four or five chemstry notes. One game, Flair had bad-awful chemistry with Dusty, Ron Garvin, Magnum, Ivan Koloff, Roddy Piper...pretty much my entire main event scene. To me, that's not bad chemistry, that just means he's not very good

 

I also agree that too many good pairings of wrestlers are being lumped into the "good chemistry" pile. RVD & Jerry Lynn, Cena & HBK, London & Yang...none of these are good chemistry. They're just good workers working with other good workers. They've all had just as good matches with other wrestlers as they've had with themselves.

[djthefunkchris]

If anything, I think a lot of these nonsensical arguments have made me believe more and more that Chemistry is kind of useless. A random thing added to change gameplay from game-to-game rather then being a well thought out thing.

 

"IF" you do really understand the concept/feature. You should note that one of the most important features of the game is that which I bolded....

 

I mean, come on... How much better can a feature be if not to make a games re-playability much better?

 

Let's go to the extreme, and say that we want a mod where forced chemistry is utilized 100%. IF this mod exists, then probably all the other features that effect worker's will be utilized greatly, if not fully.

 

Now, with all these features, to include the one variable that makes every game destined to be different, how will that mods' re-playability be?

 

With the features we now have, already..> The modder has the ability to almost guarantee a path for the mod to follow. If someone was to leave nothing to chance, the mod itself could end up with a re-playability of 1... as every game you play will end up the same (just with a different user character).

 

So, mainly what I think is being asked from players, to modders, is to please leave 99% of the game to chance, and effect only those things which are the most important to the mods "story". IF you have 2000 worker's, don't have 2000 chemistries, have around 20. I think that's a safe thing to say, anyways. This should make the playing the game several times more enjoyable (and less predictable).

 

The fear is more of a ton of forced chemistry, rather then the few that have been mentioned (Flair/Steamboat, Hardys, etc.).

[jbergey_2005]

Steamboat was the best of all time.

 

He sold better than anyone and his story telling was 2nd to none. Its hard to tell wrestling is fake watching his matches I tell you that.

[lazorbeak]

A random thing added to change gameplay from game-to-game rather then being a well thought out thing.

 

 

THE HORROR. THE HORROR.

 

 

To me, the way chemistry works in TEW08 is almost as bad as if workers just randomly died, not pending on age or drug use or whatever. Why not make that happen? It would change gameplay from game-to-game. Or what if just randomly throughout he game, stars quit companies for no reason? It would be terrific if your main eventer and title holder just up and left, imagine how difficult it would be to book around that!

 

Actually that first feature has already been announced.

[jbergey_2005]

I speculate the reason Adam doesnt want chemistry "overabused" is because it is really hard for bias people to make this decision. Do we really know if Steamboat/Flair had great chemistry? Im sure a lot of wrestlers have good/bad chemistry but it is so difficult to actually know. I think its hard to say who Steamboat had great chemistry with because he was great against everyone. Savage/Steamboat stole the show at WM3 but that match was scripted so can two wrestlers that script their matches have great chemistry? In fact Savage had all of his matches planned out move for move prior to the match as quoted from different sources.

 

When the computer decides this for us we dont have to make that decision which in the long run will make things much easier.

 

I do like the fact that chemistry can be set to neutral. In the current format the only thing that really bothers me is to see two great workers with multi dimensional skills getting the bad chemistry note. I just cant see it happening.

 

About the only workers I can see guys like Steamboat/HBK having bad chemistry with is huge workers that dont sell or inexperienced workers that cant keep up.

[Vladamire Dracos]

Actually that first feature has already been announced.

 

This is true. #10: Random Deaths, from the Developer's Journal. Also included is "Kenny Deaths" Kenny from South Park style deaths. I personally won't be using the latter with real world mods I'm playing, and I'll be trying out the former before starting a serious game with it active. Some randomness is fine, even desired, but too much of anything is bad.

[djthefunkchris]

It's alot of subjectiveness trying to be objective.

 

Don't get me wrong. I am VERY VERY happy that this has been an included feature. I will USE it.

 

Jbergey, I think mostly what has been said is using the neutral chemistry with alot of the tag teams, so that they don't get "Bad" chemistry. This is something that would work with people your not sure of, I believe...

 

Say your making a mod, and you know that these 10 tag teams did great, and they worked well together as a team. You might not think they outperformed their skills, but you don't want them to underperform either. So you can throw it in as neutral chemistry. This insure's (for example) that Steamboat and Flair don't smell up the place, but doesn't insure that their match's are going to be huge without compelling storylines to back them with.

 

Where-as giving people "Good" chemistry will guarrentee "BETTER" match's then they would normally do with their own skillset.

 

I think the majority are actually getting this feature. There are some up in the air posts, but for the most part I think everyone is thinking more of the Neutral position, then giving people bad or good chemistry (At least at this point).