TEW2020 Product Suggestion Thread

[TeemuFoundation]

It's basically the case of WWE losing its touch with the fans. What the WWE wants their Raw & SmackDown product to be and what the fans are looking for are two very different things. WWE still books as "PG Sports Entertainment", but in actuality ratings and show quality are falling, because fans aren't buying that anymore.

 

It's an important destinction most mods don't keep in mind. "Product" sets what kind of fanbase the company will have, not how it is actually booked by a Booker with a "Sports Entertainment" and "Look" bias. WWE's product is there, Classic Sports Entertainment, if you keep the falling fanbase in mind

Okay, first off, I want to say let's not have this devolve into one of those arguments, people are totally entitled to enjoy exactly the type of wrestling they enjoy. And I don't want to go offtopic too much, either, but I'll say a few things since it does have to do with my suggestion about products. But I'm not sure I totally agree with this statement. Granted, my WWE watching is limited at best these days. But I kinda keep up here and there. I just feel like WWE itself has put heavier emphasis on the actual in ring product, and the traditional sports-entertainment, while still there, has taken a backseat. At least when it comes to larger than life characters. Compare The Rock and Stone Cold to Seth Rollins and AJ Styles. And not taking anything away from Seth and AJ - well, at least AJ - but they're not quite The Rock and Stone Cold. The character that most wrestlers in WWE seem to have these days is "he is a good wrestler".

 

And I think this does cater to the fanbase that is there. It's just a different fanbase that it used to be. Because, in the past, the product was different, and it was aimed at a different demo. These days, the WWE seems to try to be some kind of weird sports-entertainment-modern indy wrestling hybrid thing kinda. I'm not really sure what the identity even is to be honest. From the entry products Adam listed, I'd say that WWE is a mix between the PG sports-entertainment and the Nerd Nirvana products. I think NXT is definitely Nerd Nirvana.

 

But then again I also echo what Self said above in that WWE is a weird beast in more ways than one, and perfectly replicating it to a video game like TEW is hard if not impossible. So idk.

[Derek B]

WWE is so difficult to describe these days, because in many ways it's all over the place and hard to pigeonhole into one particular style. That said, in TEW terms you have to pull the product apart from the talent performing it... and in my opinion (for what it is worth) the core WWE product these days is very much the PG Rated Sports Entertainment. Unfortunately for them, their talent would be better suited to other product settings and I think that's a large part of their real life issues in creating top stars. I also don't think TEW can ever fully handle the complexities of a juggernaut like WWE, but while the WWE continues to do one thing, the talent at their disposal doesn't seem to fit it as well as other product types would.

 

In TEW2020, the exact same roster being switched to a different product type could see a fairly big change in segment ratings for the company. Might be an experiment worth trying out when we get that far.

 

As for the Wrestling Nerd Nirvana product, that very much looks tailored to fit a company like AEW because... well, the description is pretty much bang on what AEW is.

[Tom Bombadil]

Took a stab at how I perceive of AEW:

 

Old School Revival: Mixes traditional storytelling and presentation with modern workrate and flash.

 

Maybe include variants with comedy or hardcore added?

 

(EDIT: but yeah Nerdvana might actually fit them already)

[RingRider]

Border Town Rasslin': A twist on Classic Wild West. This product is full of hosses brawling it out, but with occasional lucha characters.

[Tom Bombadil]

Something for Everyone: A mishmash of different styles and approaches. Fans accept a wide range of styles, but expect a certain level of variety every show.

 

(So like, you could run all types of match without penalty, but you'll get more "the fans are expecting at least one match that is X Y or Z" notes)

[MightyDavidson]

WWE is so weird. I look at 205 live guys killing themselves and getting crickets, so while the fans might accept more work rate on top they sure don't appreciate it on the bottom. Not without a push. Except for NXT which has a totally different fanbase. in the venue if not on TV.

 

Isn't that due to 205 Live being filmed as part of a very large block of wrestling programming? I mean it is filmed at the same time as RAW or Smackdown isn't it and as a result the fans have sat through a lot of wrestling? If I've just sat through three hours of wrestling, I'm probably gonna be worn out and tired and thus, not likely to be all that emotional.

[Matt_Black]

Okay, first off, I want to say let's not have this devolve into one of those arguments, people are totally entitled to enjoy exactly the type of wrestling they enjoy. And I don't want to go offtopic too much, either, but I'll say a few things since it does have to do with my suggestion about products. But I'm not sure I totally agree with this statement. Granted, my WWE watching is limited at best these days. But I kinda keep up here and there. I just feel like WWE itself has put heavier emphasis on the actual in ring product, and the traditional sports-entertainment, while still there, has taken a backseat. At least when it comes to larger than life characters. Compare The Rock and Stone Cold to Seth Rollins and AJ Styles. And not taking anything away from Seth and AJ - well, at least AJ - but they're not quite The Rock and Stone Cold. The character that most wrestlers in WWE seem to have these days is "he is a good wrestler".

 

The guy who is arguably the most over in the company is the children's show host with a demonic alter ego.

[TeemuFoundation]

The guy who is arguably the most over in the company is the children's show host with a demonic alter ego.

Yes, this is true. And I did think about that. But he is clearly a major exception. But I digress.

[ArcheoOutOfNowhere]

Two suggestions, although I don't know if they could actually work in the game (well, at least the second one) as a product or if it'd be something to add somewhere else:

 

Burlesque: Pretty much what I've been told the Lucha VaVoom product is, this company features a mix between comedy, lucha and more "risque" content. Basically how you'd imagine a funny-sexy lucha libre show with drag queens. No long storylines (or even no storylines at all if we consider that a storyline's duration is always more than one show), match quality is important-ish in that it would need high flying and lucha stuff but technical wrestlers would probably struggle there if they are not good at comedy (or have a high Sex Appeal). Feel free to add on it, as I've never actually been to one of their shows but I remember hearing about them and it sounded fun

 

The second one I'm not sure how to call it, but to put it briefly, a company where the focus is on woman wrestling, yet they do have a male division. So male workers would be welcome but would never be booked as the focus of the company, regardless of how good they are. In a way, it might be easier to just have a possibility to tell the AI to use one of the premade products, but reverse the genders used, or to double the option that let us choose if we want woman wrestling to be for the entire company, integrated, a division or absent (with the second copy being "Male wrestling" obviously).

[Warhawk8492]

Hardcore Entertainment - A mix of sports entertainment and hardcore. Focusing more on the hardcore aspects.

[LordofGustav]

Alternative Entertainment: A mix of sports entertainment with elements of hardcore, lucha libre, modern wrestling, puroesu, with little comedy.

 

Alternative Tradition: A mix of old school wrestling with elements of hardcore, lucha libre, modern wrestling, puroesu.

 

MMA Entertainment: A mix of sports entertainment and MMA.

[adi95]

Lucha Entertainment or Americanized Lucha Libre - A mix of traditional Lucha Libre with typical American Sports Entertainment elements in balanced proportions.

[edenborn]

Higher Calling: Wrestling shows that have a religious theme to them. Wrestling skills take a backseat as wrestling matches just happen to be part of the show as the purpose is to preach a religious message to the audience. Angles are usually skits of basic good -vs- evil, as well as workers giving their testimony. A particularly bad owner can really hurt the image of a company with this product type.

As someone who's long been fascinated by evangelical promotions like the CWF, I can imagine AI owners and bookers of this product prioritizing hiring workers with the Highly Moral attribute. By the same token, perhaps Highly Moral workers would be willing to work for Higher Calling promotions at a reduced fee.

 

(Not to say that "Highly Moral" is a synonym for religious -- I'm just looking for a game mechanic that can simulate evangelical wrestling promotions.)

[syndicate]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Adam Ryland" data-cite="Adam Ryland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> Wrestling As A Sport</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> One thing I would like to see is companies be allowed to do press conferences. If it is treated like a sport that should be something that is allowed to happen.</p>

[Poputt]

"Gory Hardcore" sounds worse than "Deathmatch." I think this will needlessly confuse players. It also feels overly redundant with the Hardcore and Deathmatch styles that already exist.

 

Also I feel personally attacked in that there is no "Stoner Shoot-Style Wrestling."

[Matt_Black]

"Gory Hardcore" sounds worse than "Deathmatch." I think this will needlessly confuse players. It also feels overly redundant with the Hardcore and Deathmatch styles that already exist.

 

Also I feel personally attacked in that there is no "Stoner Shoot-Style Wrestling."

 

See, I hear "Gory Hardcore" and think it's Hardcore pioneered by Gory Guerrero.

[Dourvas]

High Fantasy A product to accommodate the 9000verse type databases with workers like Batman and the such. Don't know what it would consist of, just throwing it out there.

[Kluge]

Higher Calling: Wrestling shows that have a religious theme to them. Wrestling skills take a backseat as wrestling matches just happen to be part of the show as the purpose is to preach a religious message to the audience. Angles are usually skits of basic good -vs- evil, as well as workers giving their testimony. A particularly bad owner can really hurt the image of a company with this product type.

 

I can't wait to steal the Chris Gethard Show joke and start the WWFJD (World Wrestling Federation Jesus Do)

 

Modern - Deathmatch Combined: A style that had started within deathmatch companies that has since evolved into predominantly technical and high flying skills matches with occasional deathmatches.

[Dolfanar]

See, I hear "Gory Hardcore" and think it's Hardcore pioneered by Gory Guerrero.

 

OMG I thought the same thing!

[The Swanton825]

<p><strong>Hoss Lucha:</strong> A variant of traditional lucha where the speedy chain wrestling and high flying is replaced with beefy men beating each other senseless.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Poputt" data-cite="Poputt" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>"Gory Hardcore" sounds worse than "Deathmatch." I think this will needlessly confuse players. It also feels overly redundant with the Hardcore and Deathmatch styles that already exist.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I feel like Gory Hardcore would be better titled as American Deathmatch. Even places like CZW put more of an emphasis on story (as poorly told as it often is) than their Japanese and Puerto Rican inspiration.</p>

[Peppermint Rage]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Matt_Black" data-cite="Matt_Black" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><strong> Anachronistic Comedy-</strong> Not just aping the style of years gone by, the whole premise here is that everything is presented as if it were taking place in another era.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Olde wrestling?</p>

[pate]

<p>Adam, could you list some Cornellverse promotions and which product applies to them? Or maybe, if you don't want to open the CVerse can of worms, you could list some real world promotions? </p><p> </p><p>

I think that may help people understand the existing list of products better and help with suggestions. For example, Big Japan and Dragon Gate are obvious, but I am not sure where something like Progress would fit. I guess Wrestling Nerd Nirvana but that somehow doesn't seem 100% accurate.</p>

[Zeel1]

<p><strong>New Old School</strong> - Intended for modern-era promotions actively attempting to present a throwback to the golden age companies. It's presentation is largely drenched in tradition, nostalgia, and a dose of realism. It has a much bigger emphasis on promo work than most. However it can't help but have comparatively more modernized in-ring work than the old ways, due to current sensibilities - though they do hold themselves back to an extent. </p><p> </p><p>

A slight distinction meant to properly emulate NWA Powerrr.</p>

[Matt_Black]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="jameschaos" data-cite="jameschaos" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Olde wrestling?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yes! Though the Southpaw Regional Wrestling skits and this week's IMPACT would be good examples too.</p>

[EricSpade]

<p><strong>Extreme Lucha Libre</strong> - A grittier and more extreme style than the Classic Lucha Libre, it still has the colourful characters, but combines quality, athletic matches alongside hardcore brawling matches, and is overall far less family friendly.</p><p> </p><p>

<strong>Crazy Comedy Puro</strong> - A mixture of puroresu, hardcore, and comedy wrestling alongside a heavy dose of humor and wrestling parody. While quality, athletic matches are appreciated, the fun and wild comedy matches are the most notable.</p><p> </p><p>

<strong>Traditional Puroresu</strong> - The classic style of Japanese wrestling where match quality is crucial and the wrestling is treated as a legitimate sport. While showmanship and character work are appreciated, it is not required or necessary.</p><p> </p><p>

<strong>Family Friendly Indie</strong> - Taking the indie style of having fast paced, moves-heavy, high quality matches, but presented in a family friendly way that will appeal to a younger audience. Colorful characters and easy-to-follow angles are as important as the in-ring action.</p>