TEW2020 Discussion Thread

[BigINMoldova]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="SirMichaelJordan" data-cite="SirMichaelJordan" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I agree with this. A mix between the two would have been great. The great thing about 2016’s way is that it forced you to make stars or sign some if you were going head to head with another company. It’s a reason why TNA started signing guys like hogan when they declared a Monday night war...It was the only way they could try to compete with WWE despite having the better shows at the time.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> And that was a massive failure that devastated the company for years. The whole idea of Star Quality making a product successful in wrestling is an outdated one rooted in the 1980s. It has no place in a game trying to simulate modern wrestling.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> The Main roster of the WWE right now is far better then NXT star quality wise but it is noticeably less popular the NXT.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> It's just an outdated idea. It'd be like playing Out OF The Park Baseball with pitchers who pitch nine innings every outing. The industry has evolved past that point and the game should reflect that.</p>

[SirMichaelJordan]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BigINMoldova" data-cite="BigINMoldova" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>And that was a massive failure that devastated the company for years. The whole idea of Star Quality making a product successful in wrestling is an outdated one rooted in the 1980s. It has no place in a game trying to simulate modern wrestling.<p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> The Main roster of the WWE right now is far better then NXT star quality wise but it is noticeably less popular the NXT.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> It's just an outdated idea. It'd be like playing Out OF The Park Baseball with pitchers who pitch nine innings every outing. The industry has evolved past that point and the game should reflect that.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Hence why it should be both. They sacrificed quality for star power and the star power wasn’t even big as what WWE had at that moment.</p><p> </p><p> WWE is only less popular than NXT to hardcore fans lmao. There is no proof that points to having bigger names in a product being outdated. This idea is not exclusive to wrestling...If it was outdated than NJPW would have been able to make a bigger splash in the US market than what they currently have going on. ROH would be bigger than what it is. AEW wouldn’t invest big money on an aging vet...</p>

[Kingster]

<p>Yeah, contrary to what Adam stated in today's journal entry, I don't think anyone suggested that the impact of star quality on area battles be completely removed.</p><p> </p><p>

I agree that the current way is far from perfect, but I really like the idea that you can't just have great matches in order to succeed as a a big company, but also need "stars" on your shows to draw interest as a promotion who is looking to go mainstream. This made playing performance-based companies in particular much more interesting in 2016.</p><p> </p><p>

I mean, the national battle system has always been a bit artificial, but as a game mechanic it made sense and made the game more challenging, which is always good. As others have stated, a good mixture between the 2013 and 2016 national battles systems would be the best solution.</p><p> </p><p>

Maybe some kind of penalty on show ratings for lack of star quality?</p>

[Zeel1]

<p>I think it's more that star quality is something that evolves with time, and diminishes with age aside from very unique cases. Scott Steiner can basically be Scott Steiner forever and be as effective as he was in the late 90s, but most people lose their shine as they get older and their body starts to break down, it can be hard for people to look past that. And certain other stigmas can weigh it down as well.</p><p> </p><p>

As far as the evolution goes, I don't think it'd be wrong to say the members of Elite have a star quality that's very distinct to the modern age, that maybe wouldn't be there for those kinds of people some time ago. It has a lot to do with how you carry yourself, really.</p>

[Teh_Showtime]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Historian" data-cite="Historian" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>But you still can't do that. If the most talented in ring workers on your roster are not over, they can't successfully main event at the national level. They have to have some semblance of star quality to have been able to get over to be a main event level player.<p> </p><p> The game still has checks and balances against that.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Let’s take the default data for a counter example.</p><p> </p><p> For years and years it’s been a running joke on here that NOTBPW is a company full of wrestling robots who just spit out A* matches. In terms of Canada and National battles it’ll probably be impossible for someone to uproot prime NOTBPW on this front even if your promotion is more popular in Canada, and has bigger draws due to better TV and PPV deals. No matter how over Jack Bruce is, he won’t crank out A* matches like Sean McFly and NOTBPW will win the wars.</p><p> </p><p> As long as it’s possible to get incredible match ratings without elite popularity from the wrestlers, show quality is easily dominated by talented workers much more than not. The changes to angles in recent editions has evened the playing field but two mid level guys in a performance fed being able to have more impact than a big star in a highly rated angle will always lead to these type of things when basing it on show ratings.</p>

[absolutelyridiculous]

<p>Yeah, this just reminds me of playing EWR as a kid and putting guys like CIMA and Paul London against each other in 100-rated matches forever.</p><p> </p><p>

I think strategy games should promote multiple well-balanced play-styles, and to give the "vanilla midgets" theory absolutely zero credit in the game logic...I don't know. The average WWE match is technically way better than it used to be. But out of this big mass of super-competent hands they haven't created a John Cena, they haven't created a CM Punk, and I have no idea where the next one comes from. </p><p> </p><p>

If AEW beats expectations and becomes a solid competitor, do you think it's more likely that would happen because 1) there's a massive untapped market for technical, performance-over-popularity wrestling in America, or 2) they create a huge star somehow and build the company around him. I guess the other SQ-related game system is SQ + destiny roll-related popularity caps, but that's <em>way</em> harder for casual players to grasp IMO than SQ in battles</p>

[Matt_Black]

Well, if you read the dirt sheets, matches that have workers with high star quality (and charisma) do get bonuses, so even if star quality doesn't directly effect battles in 2020, it's still very important.

[Questlove]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="absolutelyridiculous" data-cite="absolutelyridiculous" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I think strategy games should promote multiple well-balanced play-styles, and to give the "vanilla midgets" theory absolutely zero credit in the game logic...I don't know. The average WWE match is technically way better than it used to be. But out of this big mass of super-competent hands they haven't created a John Cena, they haven't created a CM Punk, and I have no idea where the next one comes from. <p> </p><p> If AEW beats expectations and becomes a solid competitor, do you think it's more likely that would happen because 1) there's a massive untapped market for technical, performance-over-popularity wrestling in America, or 2) they create a huge star somehow and build the company around him. I guess the other SQ-related game system is SQ + destiny roll-related popularity caps, but that's <em>way</em> harder for casual players to grasp IMO than SQ in battles</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I wonder how you would even find a way to accurately simulate the way a star is made in TEW. You can't really have a storyline or angle that bombs horribly or does amazingly well because of your input, they're just... as good as the workers you have involved in them because there's no potential for audience interaction. You don't really *create* stars, you just find someone with the skills to be one and then put them on TV until they become one by themselves.</p>

[Paul_Heyman_Guy]

I agree with everybody who's said that battles should be based on multiple factors, but I just wanted to add one thing: I don't think they should be determined at the end of the month every month. I'd like to see battles be more fluid, changing with every show held by any of the companies involved. The result would be the same for regional battles with companies that only have one show a month, but battles should be able to swing back and forth weekly when companies have weekly events or TV shows, IMO.

[BHK1978]

I am so glad the game will be reverting back to popularity and getting rid of importance. I always hated the importance feature since it was introduced and felt it added nothing to enhance the game.

[1PWfan]

I can't comment on the changes to national battle as I've never played a company that was in one, but I do like that the two can be controlled separately now- I never liked that I had to put up with regional battles if I wanted to keep national ones on, now I can switch off regional and keep the big companies scrapping away.

[GnEric]

Nice to see Adam is listening to the feedback.

 

Looking forward to TEW 2020 even more now.

[lavelleuk]

As GnEric said, very happy to read today's update! That's an improvement I can enjoy lol

[TeemuFoundation]

I noticed Adam listened to the feedback. That is very cool and nice. Yesterday's update was far from any sort of a deal breaker, but I do feel he change is the best method to reflect the wrestling business. Kudos!

[1PWfan]

I'm gonna concur with the general opinion- the combo does seem to make more sense than going just down one side or the other.

[smw88]

I wonder whether the formula could be adjustable and linked to eras in a mod.. so in the pre 90s star quality is a bigger factor then in the 90s and early 00s it gradually requires more good performances, or perhaps by region as someone else mentioned I think, being over in the US vs Japan has often required different things etc. Just a thought.

[shawn michaels]

Very happy with today's announcement. It was a quick and positive response by Adam. Kudos. I firmly believe that a combo is the best solution. While I initially thought that the bigger percentage should go to show grades, after reading all the comments in here and the suggestions thread, i don't know if 50-50 would not be better. What do you guys think?

[Teh_Showtime]

Awesome note today and it’s really showing to be a good decision starting the journal so early, while there’s still time to test and change concepts.

[DAVEFAN95]

Very happy with the note today. Thanks Adam. You're awesome for listening to the fans

[DarK_RaideR]

Another thumbs up for Adam tweaking things based on fan feedback. Was an advocate on what he introduced originally myself, but kudos to the man for his attitude.

[shawn michaels]

Another thumbs up for Adam tweaking things based on fan feedback. Was an advocate on what he introduced originally myself, but kudos to the man for his attitude.

 

This is one of the great things about Adam. Listens to the players and has no problem doing so and correcting something asap. Wish all developers were like that.

[bonos mullet]

Fair play to Adam to take on board what the customer wants. A lot of people would have ploughed on regardless knowing full well we'll all chuck our money at him anyway 😉👍

[RingRider]

Agree with all the kudos to Adam. He's very much open to crafting a game that meets player's demands. Additionally, he doesn't turn away a great idea, no matter where it comes from.

 

As to the actual discussion on the National Battles themselves, I was thinking about another piece to the puzzle: broadcaster size and ratings. Basically, here's what I posed in shawnmichaels' thread in the suggestions forum:

 

Another piece of the puzzle that no one is talking about is ratings. Like the old adage...if a tree falls in the woods and no one is there...

 

Basically if a promotion (whether it's TCW or Impact) is producing great content but no one sees it...they shouldn't win.

 

In TEW terms, NJPW is putting on great statistical grades on AXIS TV...but the numbers and marketplace can't even compete with RAW or Smackdown. Sure, NJPW is making headway into America, but they should not be winning National Battles against WWE. Same with TCW in the default data. They do not have the broadcaster power to compete with Reverie--despite star power or show grades.

[SirMichaelJordan]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Questlove" data-cite="Questlove" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I wonder how you would even find a way to accurately simulate the way a star is made in TEW. You can't really have a storyline or angle that bombs horribly or does amazingly well because of your input, they're just... as good as the workers you have involved in them because there's no potential for audience interaction. You don't really *create* stars, you just find someone with the skills to be one and then put them on TV until they become one by themselves.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I always thought that angles ratings shouldn’t be as predictable as they currently are. I would love to see the consistency rating effect all of a worker’s ratings outside of wrestling skills (in this case for angles, acting and mic) and even have a “agent” for angles (like a road agent for matches) to throw another variable into the formula. Some of the biggest stars were made by accident.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Also love today’s entry. That was fast! Thanks for listening.</p>

[christmas_ape]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="SirMichaelJordan" data-cite="SirMichaelJordan" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I always thought that angles ratings shouldn’t be as predictable as they currently are. I would love to see the consistency rating effect all of a worker’s ratings outside of wrestling skills (in this case for angles, acting and mic) and even have a “agent” for angles (like a road agent for matches) to throw another variable into the formula. Some of the biggest stars were made by accident.<p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Also love today’s entry. That was fast! Thanks for listening.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I think that's a really good point by you/Questlove. Something like consistency could work, or even just gimmicks having a bigger impact. As gimmick ratings at least to me feel more random. Especially when it comes to just angles, I think an average worker with an amazing gimmick should find it MUCH easier to gain popularity/get higher ratings than a great talker stuck with an awful gimmick. </p><p> </p><p> Of course there are examples of great workers getting awful gimmicks to work, I guess you could use Undertaker as an one, but I'd like TEW to be able to reflect characters just catching on fire suddenly with a particular gimmick. I'm not sure something like Becky Lynches fairly sudden raise could happen in TEW. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Anyway I'm also real happy to see the change today, it's been said already but it is impressive and exciting to see our opinions help shape it.</p>