0/0/0/0 finances

[Narcizo]

End of September 2016 and the books are even and we should be in great shape until Cult.

[Great Tiger]

End of September 2016 and the books are even and we should be in great shape until Cult.

 

Can you tell what strategy you take (like how many show/month, who you hire, ...)?

[Narcizo]

Basically the strategy is starting with Wrestling Industry at very strong. But start in an area with 90% importance or so (every area has one of those).

 

I'll have to try again when that's not the case to see what you should do in that case but flamingred seems to have the right idea about getting some base popularity up and then easing off. If the wrestling industry is in the toilet then I would restart the game because I can't see a way out of that hole. But if the wrestling industry is strong enough to get you a +0.8 pop rise per show then run a show every week. (I actually had 4 monthly shows rather than a weekly show so I get access to speeches).

 

Hire the cheapest guys (or gals) you can find. Try to screen out bad influences as you're probably not going to get a locker room leader to whip them in line. The employment folder gives you a quick view on that. Maybe find 3-4 who are more expensive to carry your promotion. Take away travel expenses when you negotiate.

 

At shows; don't have an announcer, only wrestle 5 guys + your UC (If you're a wrestler) and a ref. Match road agent should be covered by the guy with best pyschology on that current show, except his own match which should be covered by the guy with the next highest. At this stage pretty much anything you do is going to get you maximum pop increase no matter what your product is. (I think).

 

Hope that helps.

[TheFlamingred]

Basically the strategy is starting with Wrestling Industry at very strong. But start in an area with 90% importance or so (every area has one of those).

 

I'll have to try again when that's not the case to see what you should do in that case but flamingred seems to have the right idea about getting some base popularity up and then easing off. If the wrestling industry is in the toilet then I would restart the game because I can't see a way out of that hole. But if the wrestling industry is strong enough to get you a +0.8 pop rise per show then run a show every week. (I actually had 4 monthly shows rather than a weekly show so I get access to speeches).

 

Hire the cheapest guys (or gals) you can find. Try to screen out bad influences as you're probably not going to get a locker room leader to whip them in line. The employment folder gives you a quick view on that. Maybe find 3-4 who are more expensive to carry your promotion. Take away travel expenses when you negotiate.

 

At shows; don't have an announcer, only wrestle 5 guys + your UC (If you're a wrestler) and a ref. Match road agent should be covered by the guy with best pyschology on that current show, except his own match which should be covered by the guy with the next highest. At this stage pretty much anything you do is going to get you maximum pop increase no matter what your product is. (I think).

 

Hope that helps.

 

The more I look into it, 0/0/0/0 has now become impossible given certain initial conditions. Eventually, something has got to break. (And again, if Adam is watching, this is not a complaint because it does actually make sense). The only trick out of it, maybe be to run 30 shows a month for a very long time. Even at 0.2 pop a show at 30 shows, you get to 6 pop. Keep going for 10 months and you get to 60 - which is bringing you to regional BUT, at regional at 60 hometown pop, your shows are making a massive profit so in theory, you can claim it all by the 18 month mark.

 

However, I feel that this isn't the way that the game is intended to be played (and I have no idea what challenges you will face - I assume your entire roster will be complaining about needing time to heal - at the very least).

 

So, assuming you're playing like a normal human, Either you keep rerolling your start game until you have decent enough Industry, or, if you accept the lack of industry/economy, you have to begin with either a Massive starting Capitol, a starting Loan, or (what my previously favourite as it means I spend time at local which I find the least fun stage of the game) start at about 8 popularity in the hometown.

 

P.s., I rerolled what should be my first 'long game' save about a dozen times in the CVerse97, not once did I see starting Industry at over a C

[Derek B]

The more I look into it, 0/0/0/0 has now become impossible given certain initial conditions. Eventually, something has got to break. (And again, if Adam is watching, this is not a complaint because it does actually make sense). The only trick out of it, maybe be to run 30 shows a month for a very long time. Even at 0.2 pop a show at 30 shows, you get to 6 pop. Keep going for 10 months and you get to 60 - which is bringing you to regional BUT, at regional at 60 hometown pop, your shows are making a massive profit so in theory, you can claim it all by the 18 month mark.

 

However, I feel that this isn't the way that the game is intended to be played (and I have no idea what challenges you will face - I assume your entire roster will be complaining about needing time to heal - at the very least).

 

So, assuming you're playing like a normal human, Either you keep rerolling your start game until you have decent enough Industry, or, if you accept the lack of industry/economy, you have to begin with either a Massive starting Capitol, a starting Loan, or (what my previously favourite as it means I spend time at local which I find the least fun stage of the game) start at about 8 popularity in the hometown.

 

P.s., I rerolled what should be my first 'long game' save about a dozen times in the CVerse97, not once did I see starting Industry at over a C

 

I'm 99% sure I set the industry levels to a fixed starting point in CV97, so they'll always be within a certain range.

 

As for the rest, those are only slow gains due to low levels of economy/industry and trends usually. You can still gain lots of pop when wrestling is doing well and if you have a trending product, you just need to actually give yourself the best chance you can to do well, which may not line up with your actual preferences for booking.

[TheFlamingred]

I'm 99% sure I set the industry levels to a fixed starting point in CV97, so they'll always be within a certain range.

 

As for the rest, those are only slow gains due to low levels of economy/industry and trends usually. You can still gain lots of pop when wrestling is doing well and if you have a trending product, you just need to actually give yourself the best chance you can to do well, which may not line up with your actual preferences for booking.

 

i wasn't aware that it was possible to preset these, I did have a look around the editor but didn't see anything which looked right - but I am not a big user of the editor so I may well have overlooked it.

 

Otherwise yeah if you don't have a stacked economy / industry against you, it is simple enough to get back your money, it's more trivial the better those two main factors. Where the balance points goes from being quite a comfortable challenge to near imoossible, I haven't yet worked out. If I can find the place where you can preset industry and economy, then I could try it out

[mrwhippy]

I think running a show a week should be enough to survive past the 18 months mark.

[Tom Bombadil]

i wasn't aware that it was possible to preset these, I did have a look around the editor but didn't see anything which looked right - but I am not a big user of the editor so I may well have overlooked it.

 

Game World > Area Set Up

[Derek B]

i wasn't aware that it was possible to preset these, I did have a look around the editor but didn't see anything which looked right - but I am not a big user of the editor so I may well have overlooked it.

 

Otherwise yeah if you don't have a stacked economy / industry against you, it is simple enough to get back your money, it's more trivial the better those two main factors. Where the balance points goes from being quite a comfortable challenge to near imoossible, I haven't yet worked out. If I can find the place where you can preset industry and economy, then I could try it out

 

Main Editor -> Game World -> Area Set Up.

[creepshow]

<p>Took a "loan" from the "bank" and I'm still losing at least $8k per month each month in 2018, running one show per.</p><p> </p><p>

I blame myself, mostly, since I wasn't really concerned with my roster budget until everyone was already established.</p><p> </p><p>

The industry is still in the 30s and rising, but when I first started it was at 7. This really, reeeeally kicked my butt out of the gate.</p><p> </p><p>

Part of me wants to give it up, the other part of me still wants to see how far I can take this roster/company.</p>

[Dr. Hook]

<p>I had to take a "loan" from the "bank" also to the tune of 50k to cover losses for the first year. After 15 months, I am losing about 1500/mo so I expect, at the current rate, even with a falling industry and economy to be breaking even at 18 months. This is a pretty lean roster, too, with 12 cheap wrestlers, a ref, and a couple of managers. Would not have been possible without the "loan," so I agree that if you don't get a good starting industry and economy, this is a pretty much impossible challenge without using the editor for a bit of help.</p><p> </p><p>

So, yeah, if feels a bit tainted to me because of the "loan" but now I am invested in the save and will keep on- I feel better only because the "loan" just brought me to zero and I intend to "pay" it back once I have some funds accumulated. Probably do the 50k repay + 7% interest or something to make it feel right <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[MaxxHexx]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Dr. Hook" data-cite="Dr. Hook" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41258" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I had to take a "loan" from the "bank" also to the tune of 50k to cover losses for the first year. After 15 months, I am losing about 1500/mo so I expect, at the current rate, even with a falling industry and economy to be breaking even at 18 months. This is a pretty lean roster, too, with 12 cheap wrestlers, a ref, <strong>and a couple of managers</strong>. Would not have been possible without the "loan," so I agree that if you don't get a good starting industry and economy, this is a pretty much impossible challenge without using the editor for a bit of help.<p> </p><p> So, yeah, if feels a bit tainted to me because of the "loan" but now I am invested in the save and will keep on- I feel better only because the "loan" just brought me to zero and I intend to "pay" it back once I have some funds accumulated. Probably do the 50k repay + 7% interest or something to make it feel right <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> If money is a concern for you this seems unnecessary.</p><p> </p><p> I am still early in testing a game with bad industry, but I think if you play smart it is a challenge that can be overcome without gaming the system. Will report more as I get further.</p>

[TheFlamingred]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="MaxxHexx" data-cite="MaxxHexx" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41258" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>If money is a concern for you this seems unnecessary.<p> </p><p> I am still early in testing a game with bad industry, but I think if you play smart it is a challenge that can be overcome without gaming the system. Will report more as I get further.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I only get to play the game during the week as I work weekends, so I look forward to see if you can find a way out of a bad industry. I'll begin my tests next week now that I've been very kindly pointed to the fact that I can edit the starting Economy and Industry in the editor...</p><p> </p><p> One thing I always struggle to get around... Is 50 points average... Or is a C grade average?</p>

[Dr. Hook]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="MaxxHexx" data-cite="MaxxHexx" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41258" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>If money is a concern for you this seems unnecessary.<p> </p><p> I am still early in testing a game with bad industry, but I think if you play smart it is a challenge that can be overcome without gaming the system. Will report more as I get further.</p></div></blockquote> <p> </p><p> This is true, but they combine cost me about $600 a month. Without them, I guess I would have been 45k in debt rather than 50k. Still a good point, but in 13 I could always afford a couple of manager/personalities on the cheap. This is totally different, I am realizing, at least in this respect, but I'd love to see what you come up with as far making this work. I think it could if you ran a cheap (no one over $300 PPA) 6 person promotion or something so lean as that. My concern then becomes the shows would be so bad how long would it take in a bad economy/industry to get enough pop to get sponsorship income to allow you to add a few workers.</p>

[TheFlamingred]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Dr. Hook" data-cite="Dr. Hook" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41258" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>This is true, but they combine cost me about $600 a month. Without them, I guess I would have been 45k in debt rather than 50k. Still a good point, but in 13 I could always afford a couple of manager/personalities on the cheap. This is totally different, I am realizing, at least in this respect, but I'd love to see what you come up with as far making this work. I think it could if you ran a cheap (no one over $300 PPA) 6 person promotion or something so lean as that. My concern then becomes the shows would be so bad how long would it take in a bad economy/industry to get enough pop to get sponsorship income to allow you to add a few workers.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I still don't think it's possible, without trying to push to regional by doing crazy number of shows a month, even with the leanest of rosters. But it needs more testing to be definate. </p><p> </p><p> In Tew13, even in a not good economy, there was never an issue for the most part, because your sponsorship amount was constant at the local size. In fact, it was normally about 10-12k in sponsorship, so off the bat you could easily hire a couple of 1k a night workers to carry the company, and still make a profit. </p><p> </p><p> I like that it is calculated per pop point now, as it means as you become a little more popular, you can sign that slightly better worker and keep your same profit. I've been playing the Population 8 game, and the sponsorship increments makes you feel like you are progressing slightly with each successful show, rather then churning out shows in order to get up to Small Size.</p><p> </p><p> The issue still is journey of the 0 to 6-8 pop game, to get there quickly enough to, but not accumulate so much debt that it cannot be overcome - which is a new dynamic in TEW.</p>

[Dr. Hook]

I like how it works now, and because it is this way, it might mean the old 0/0/0/0 is over. After all, who would open a business knowing the profit/loss expectations and not have some cash built up or a credit line to cover the first few months of operation. From just looking at it, it seems like the RTG is 0/0/0/50k and that would seem to put you on the same level as 0 money would before.

[marsupial311]

<p>If you run a show every day in one or two regions, when would you become profitable? If you've got 18 months that's 400 shows so you've got to be national by then.. If you're doing RTG you can just wait for a National promotion to open up by then if you're still in debt.</p><p> </p><p>

Basically, will the game ever not let you run a show because you're too far in the hole?</p>

[TheFlamingred]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Dr. Hook" data-cite="Dr. Hook" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41258" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I like how it works now, and because it is this way, it might mean the old 0/0/0/0 is over. After all, who would open a business knowing the profit/loss expectations and not have some cash built up or a credit line to cover the first few months of operation. From just looking at it, it seems like the RTG is 0/0/0/50k and that would seem to put you on the same level as 0 money would before.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Only if the Wrestling Industry and/or to a lesser extent, economy is bad. If you have a C in both, 0/0/0/0 is easily achievable, even at one show a month ( though doing 4 shows in month 1 is still better). It's only when one or both of those stats are bad, that you would need additional funding. </p><p> </p><p> But the challenge is Over for the most part I believe, unless you only do the challenge at a smart time, I.e. When the world is on your side. </p><p> </p><p> New HardCore Challenge: do 0/0/0/0 with Economy and Industry at 0/0 <img alt=";)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/wink.png.686f06e511ee1fbf6bdc7d82f6831e53.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="marsupial311" data-cite="marsupial311" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41258" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>If you run a show every day in one or two regions, when would you become profitable? If you've got 18 months that's 400 shows so you've got to be national by then.. If you're doing RTG you can just wait for a National promotion to open up by then if you're still in debt.<p> </p><p> Basically, will the game ever not let you run a show because you're too far in the hole?</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I have suggested running 30 shows a month for lots of months to simply race to a C grade popularity. You'll be very far in the red, hit you should be making so much in ticket sales it will even out. However it is exploiting the way the game is meant to be played (that and 1. Who wants to book that many shows in that many days and 2. All your workers are gonna be exhausted and injured, before too long - but beyond that, I don't think the game would stop you putting on shows until you go bankrupt in month 18)</p>

[Pogo92]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TheFlamingred" data-cite="TheFlamingred" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41258" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Only if the Wrestling Industry and/or to a lesser extent, economy is bad. If you have a C in both, 0/0/0/0 is easily achievable, even at one show a month ( though doing 4 shows in month 1 is still better). It's only when one or both of those stats are bad, that you would need additional funding. <p> </p><p> But the challenge is Over for the most part I believe, unless you only do the challenge at a smart time, I.e. When the world is on your side. </p><p> </p><p> New HardCore Challenge: do 0/0/0/0 with Economy and Industry at 0/0 <img alt=";)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/wink.png.686f06e511ee1fbf6bdc7d82f6831e53.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> I have suggested running 30 shows a month for lots of months to simply race to a C grade popularity. You'll be very far in the red, hit you should be making so much in ticket sales it will even out. However it is exploiting the way the game is meant to be played (that and 1. Who wants to book that many shows in that many days and 2. All your workers are gonna be exhausted and injured, before too long - but beyond that, I don't think the game would stop you putting on shows until you go bankrupt in month 18)</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> This is the conclusion I'm coming to as well. I think it's officially time to consider modifying the challenge for 2016--The beauty of the 0/0/0/0 challenge was that, while a big challenging and demanding, you could still be successful while operating like a real life wrestling org. In 2016, unless you have fairly good luck or game the system, you are sometimes destined to fail right out of the gate--The challenge is no longer universal. </p><p> </p><p> So this means that we need a new challenge. The big issue I see in approaching this is how much variance there is in sponsorship money based on the state of the economy. Sponsorship is the life blood of an org early on, so the difficulty of the challenge hinges on that. Possible approaches:</p><p> </p><p> 1. Start out at 8 Pop. Benefits: This mirrors the games "baked in" most difficult start. Downside is, takes away that feeling of going from truly "Zero to Hero", and shortens the time spent at "Local" noticeably. Upside is, it's intuitive and straight-forward--Simulates "local pride" in the organization. Should fix all financial issues without totally taking away the challenge in all circumstances. May be paired with setting the founding date of the company to 2015 to reduce the bank's debt tolerance if difficulty needs to be adjusted.</p><p> </p><p> 2. Grant a lump sum of start up cash. This is also very straight-forward and represents an initial investor--Something just about every company has. Downside is, it is not very flexible to game start conditions so certain economies will make the game VERY easy. </p><p> </p><p> 3. Edit the economy to a certain starting condition. Downside is, this is the most gamey approach as it's taking something that's suppose to be random and setting it static. Upside is, this is the most consistent and balanceable start in terms of starting challenge.</p>

[TheFlamingred]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Pogo92" data-cite="Pogo92" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41258" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>This is the conclusion I'm coming to as well. I think it's officially time to consider modifying the challenge for 2016--The beauty of the 0/0/0/0 challenge was that, while a big challenging and demanding, you could still be successful while operating like a real life wrestling org. In 2016, unless you have fairly good luck or game the system, you are sometimes destined to fail right out of the gate--The challenge is no longer universal. <p> </p><p> So this means that we need a new challenge. The big issue I see in approaching this is how much variance there is in sponsorship money based on the state of the economy. Sponsorship is the life blood of an org early on, so the difficulty of the challenge hinges on that. Possible approaches:</p><p> </p><p> 1. Start out at 8 Pop. Benefits: This mirrors the games "baked in" most difficult start. Downside is, takes away that feeling of going from truly "Zero to Hero", and shortens the time spent at "Local" noticeably. Upside is, it's intuitive and straight-forward--Simulates "local pride" in the organization. Should fix all financial issues without totally taking away the challenge in all circumstances. May be paired with setting the founding date of the company to 2015 to reduce the bank's debt tolerance if difficulty needs to be adjusted.</p><p> </p><p> 2. Grant a lump sum of start up cash. This is also very straight-forward and represents an initial investor--Something just about every company has. Downside is, it is not very flexible to game start conditions so certain economies will make the game VERY easy. </p><p> </p><p> 3. Edit the economy to a certain starting condition. Downside is, this is the most gamey approach as it's taking something that's suppose to be random and setting it static. Upside is, this is the most consistent and balanceable start in terms of starting challenge.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Point 1 is the strategy I went with (because as stated before, I am just not a huge fan of spending lots of time in local) and point 2 is what Creepshow is doing, though is doing it post-hoc by Creepshow and Dr Hook who are giving themselves bank loans, with the idea to pay it back. </p><p> </p><p> Point 3, while it is removing the randomness, it is a sensible, well balanced step. It's saying, "I will open this business in a day and age where it isn't stupid to open said business" and then just ensure that the start of the game coincides with this sensible business strategy. If the rise and fall is still randomised, then in two years the outlook will be random still, but by which time, you should have weathered the finisnical Storm. </p><p> </p><p> In a way, I kinda like this last method best if you want to do an old style 0/0/0/0 run.</p>

[foolinc]

Well the newest update just made this all a moot point as now it says that I am looking to gain $20,000 dollars in sponsership money.

 

I'm now a little salty, considering that I figured out a plan for getting a 0/0/0/0 promotion into the black by the end of the year while still running 12 shows.

 

The answer was 4 shows in January, 4 shows in May, and 4 shows in September. I even had plans to run the shows during week 1 on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, doubling up on Saturday because I was splitting the roster into two groups.

 

Back to the drawing board...

[K-Nection]

I'm really not seeing why people were having trouble to begin with? If you check out the RTG thread there is already people hitting Cult with their original promotions. I think a lot of you guys were making this harder on yourselves than you had to be.

[TheFlamingred]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41258" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>(1.05)<p> Couldn't turn Hostility into War without ending the relationship first, which could cause an unintentional stand-off situation</p><p> Runtime Error 3021 when viewing a match that had no announcer #1 but someone in either spot #2 or #3</p><p> Lowered national battle damage by user request</p><p> <strong>Increased sponsorship for small companies by user request</strong></p></div></blockquote><p><strong> </strong></p><p> Darn it! <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> this has been an up and down topic! </p><p> </p><p> Right, anyone new here ignore the last 150 odd posts! We're gonna be doing our simulations yet again afresh.</p>

[TheFlamingred]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="K-Nection" data-cite="K-Nection" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41258" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'm really not seeing why people were having trouble to begin with? If you check out the RTG thread there is already people hitting Cult with their original promotions. I think a lot of you guys were making this harder on yourselves than you had to be.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Not all, those starting with terrible industry and economy have really been struggling, many having to make multiple attempts to not go bankrupt, </p><p> </p><p> If you're lucky with your industry and economy, then there's little challenge.</p><p> </p><p> This new patch may change things yet again though.</p>

[creepshow]

Hooray, with the new patch I can now pay back the bank!