0/0/0/0 finances

[marsupial311]

<p>Sponsorship money seems excessively high now. I'm an almost regional company that went from taking a small loss running four shows a week, to making a 20k profit after signing three additional workers. I'm running B-/B shows at this level while making a good profit with a C+ economy.</p><p> </p><p>

Feels like the challenge is gone already.</p>

[Pogo92]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="K-Nection" data-cite="K-Nection" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41258" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'm really not seeing why people were having trouble to begin with? If you check out the RTG thread there is already people hitting Cult with their original promotions. I think a lot of you guys were making this harder on yourselves than you had to be.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Those people started with the original version, before the early sponsorship nerfs. They probably also had a beneficial economy.</p>

[John Lions]

Yeah taking a look at it and it looks like there was just a flat 20k added to every sponsorship level which seems insane... honestly 3k-4k would have been plenty.

[Dr. Hook]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="John Lions" data-cite="John Lions" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41258" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Yeah taking a look at it and it looks like there was just a flat 20k added to every sponsorship level which seems insane... honestly 3k-4k would have been plenty.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yep, its swung back too far the other way. I would have been happier with just a small bump and then the percentage increase each time you gain pop. Really, a budget roster (say no one over $500/ppa) of 12 workers incl. the user character should be calibrated to break even for the first month or thereabouts.</p>

[Pogo92]

Woah, WAY too much sponsorship money now. It'd be fine if it scaled from 0 to 10,000 sponsorship pre-economy adjustment about 50% faster, but now you would literally have to throw away money at chiropractors and catering to go out of business.

[John Lions]

I'm wondering if the change has more to do with smaller companies (MAW) going out of business or getting bought out in a lot of people's long term saves. I understand it may have negated the challenge to us hardcore players, but it does make it more accessible to newer players and may help out the balance in the game world overall.

[Derek B]

Adam has already stated that it's still in the process of being tweaked. Has gone from being too hard to too easy. so hopefully the next patch will have it set at Just Right.

[Pogo92]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="John Lions" data-cite="John Lions" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41258" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'm wondering if the change has more to do with smaller companies (MAW) going out of business or getting bought out in a lot of people's long term saves. I understand it may have negated the challenge to us hardcore players, but it does make it more accessible to newer players and may help out the balance in the game world overall.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Well, newer players would probably be starting at 8 pop anyways with the default start, instead of editing in a 0 pop company. If the scaling was increased a bit they'd see an increase in income anyways.</p>

[John Lions]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Derek B" data-cite="Derek B" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41258" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Adam has already stated that it's still in the process of being tweaked. Has gone from being too hard to too easy. so hopefully the next patch will have it set at Just Right. <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Thanks for keeping us in the loop Derek. I'll just have to hold of on starting my long term game until a "Just Right" patch gets dropped. At least I have Dark Souls 3 to beat still in the mean time!</p>

[creepshow]

<p>I don't think it's gotten too easy at all. At least not as a "local" company. I'm just barely breaking even at one show a month. </p><p> </p><p>

Even though the estimated sponsorship dollars are over $16k for my promotion I'm only making about $12k in sponsorships.</p>

[John Lions]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="creepshow" data-cite="creepshow" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41258" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I don't think it's gotten too easy at all. At least not as a "local" company. I'm just barely breaking even at one show a month. <p> </p><p> Even though the estimated sponsorship dollars are over $16k for my promotion I'm only making about $12k in sponsorships.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> How are you spending that much on shows at local? With the guys I plan on hiring, including announcers and a road agent, I don't think I would be spending more than 6k-7k a month on shows.</p>

[creepshow]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="John Lions" data-cite="John Lions" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41258" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>How are you spending that much on shows at local? With the guys I plan on hiring, including announcers and a road agent, I don't think I would be spending more than 6k-7k a month on shows.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'm only spending 9-10k a month on talent, but also it's about 2.5 for the venue, plus production expenses.</p><p> </p><p> I'm probably running a more expensive roster than I need to, but I'm also putting out decent quality shows. Usually low to mid 40s.</p>

[creepshow]

Also, keep in mind, this promotion has been open for over 2 years now and because of the a low industry rating I am just now at 11 pop in my home region.

[John Lions]

Gotcha. I feel like your situation is pretty close to a worst case scenario (especially since you started the game when sponsorship was too low, right?). If it were that much from the start I think you would be well in the green, so tweaking it a little higher than on launch but lower than it is currently would be alright especially if you started off making more.

[creepshow]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="John Lions" data-cite="John Lions" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41258" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Gotcha. I feel like your situation is pretty close to a worst case scenario (especially since you started the game when sponsorship was too low, right?). If it were that much from the start I think you would be well in the green, so tweaking it a little higher than on launch but lower than it is currently would be alright especially if you started off making more.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> well, I started it when it was too high, ran two shows, then when it was too low ran for 2 years and then the new patch it.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> So right now I'm at the sweet spot, making modest income. Industry + low sponsorship...had me at almost -$200k after the bank's grace period</p><p> </p><p> I was only making about $2000 per show and had just cracked $4000 per before the patch hit.</p>

[foolinc]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Derek B" data-cite="Derek B" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41258" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Adam has already stated that it's still in the process of being tweaked. Has gone from being too hard to too easy. so hopefully the next patch will have it set at Just Right. <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png"></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yep. It's just how things go during the release of a game. </p><p> </p><p> It's why I'm waiting to start the diary proper.</p>

[TheFlamingred]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Derek B" data-cite="Derek B" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41258" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Adam has already stated that it's still in the process of being tweaked. Has gone from being too hard to too easy. so hopefully the next patch will have it set at Just Right. <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Oh wow, I didn't realise this was high on his priority list as it always has a note says no By User Request. I never thought it a problem, as i thought it worked as intended. But I guess if MAW are struggling with money unintentionally as a result of the beta patch, then I guess either the database had to be adjusted, or the sponsorship.</p><p> </p><p> Good news is I don't have to spend some time doing some testing and little but if math to see how things work, until that balancing patch hits.</p>

[MaxxHexx]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TheFlamingred" data-cite="TheFlamingred" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41258" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>New HardCore Challenge: do 0/0/0/0 with Economy and Industry at 0/0 <img alt=";)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/wink.png.686f06e511ee1fbf6bdc7d82f6831e53.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I am tempted to go edit my game to prove it can be done, but apparently the new patch would make this easy now.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Dr. Hook" data-cite="Dr. Hook" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41258" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>This is true, <strong>but they combine cost me about $600 a month</strong>. Without them, I guess I would have been 45k in debt rather than 50k. Still a good point, but in 13 I could always afford a couple of manager/personalities on the cheap.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The difference between Mad Dog Mortimer and El Mitico Jr. Who would you rather have?</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="K-Nection" data-cite="K-Nection" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41258" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'm really not seeing why people were having trouble to begin with? If you check out the RTG thread there is already people hitting Cult with their original promotions. I think a lot of you guys were making this harder on yourselves than you had to be.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Many admittedly started games until they got good industry.</p>

[liontamer]

<p>Catching up on the thread, a few things.</p><p> </p><p>

1) someone mentioned 30 shows a month. I know in TEW 13 I tried running 2 shows a week at local size plus an event. At 9 shows month, after a few months you are heavily penalized and cannot run shows for a few months without taking hits. Be careful with that strategy. </p><p> </p><p>

2) My game started the first 2 months on the unpatched demo and did well, was crippled financially by the patches and an error as noted in one of my posts (I think in the whats going on in your game thread) and I went bankrupt. So I can be added to the failures on the first attempt. Presently starting over and will stick with 1.03 as I'm seeing more sponsorship issues and would rather just stick with one environment for now. Will be tough because the home area is F+ rising, / D+ falling.</p><p> </p><p>

3) Going to make an effort to fully understand and take full advantage of the internet production. First discovery after testing, it seems to be about 14 weeks of not being seen in an area is the limit before harsh penalties. As best I can tell, it's the game region/country, not the smaller regions within. In case size plays a factor, this was at local and applied to home and foreign regions.</p><p> </p><p>

4) for those talking about how great sponsorship estimates are after a certain strategy, realize that they don't always match up. my estimates have been 9-10K the past 2 months, haven't exceed 5K in reality due to the economy.</p><p> </p><p>

5) I am in may with no titles, does not seem to be a penalty for it. (waiting for a 4th of July event to crown 1st champ)</p>

[liontamer]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="liontamer" data-cite="liontamer" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41258" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Catching up on the thread, a few things.<p> </p><p> 1) someone mentioned 30 shows a month. I know in TEW 13 I tried running 2 shows a week at local size plus an event. At 9 shows month, after a few months you are heavily penalized and cannot run shows for a few months without taking hits. Be careful with that strategy. </p><p> </p><p> 2) My game started the first 2 months on the unpatched demo and did well, was crippled financially by the patches and an error as noted in one of my posts (I think in the whats going on in your game thread) and I went bankrupt. So I can be added to the failures on the first attempt. Presently starting over and will stick with 1.03 as I'm seeing more sponsorship issues and would rather just stick with one environment for now. Will be tough because the home area is F+ rising, / D+ falling.</p><p> </p><p> 3) Going to make an effort to fully understand and take full advantage of the internet production. First discovery after testing, it seems to be about 14 weeks of not being seen in an area is the limit before harsh penalties. As best I can tell, it's the game region/country, not the smaller regions within. In case size plays a factor, this was at local and applied to home and foreign regions.</p><p> </p><p> 4) for those talking about how great sponsorship estimates are after a certain strategy, realize that they don't always match up. my estimates have been 9-10K the past 2 months, haven't exceed 5K in reality due to the economy.</p><p> </p><p> 5) I am in may with no titles, does not seem to be a penalty for it. (waiting for a 4th of July event to crown 1st champ)</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Also of interest, when the other game ended, SOTBW had taken over in the battles as the no. 1 (of 2) national USA promotions.</p>

[Narcizo]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="MaxxHexx" data-cite="MaxxHexx" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="41258" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> The difference between Mad Dog Mortimer and El Mitico Jr. Who would you rather have?</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> At local? Mad Dog - both will get you maximum popularity growth, one will cost you less. I'm biased though because I have him with a legendary goth gimmick. I want him to do well.</p>

[Bad Collin]

I think the answer to the 0/0/0/0 question is the ability to hire unnamed just trained local wrestlers who are really bad but work for practically nothing. This way you could run a show with a few named workers and keep the realistically low sponsorship money.

[creepshow]

additional ammunition for the defense of the increase in sponsorship money....

 

My company is now hovering in between local and small, the reason? Presumably production values.

 

In order to not get hit with penalties for lower production than rivals, I need(ed) to increase my production costs by $20k per month. I'm slowly recovering from that initial hit to my money...because I also had to immediately scale back as I was losing too much money...all told I lost $50k trying to keep up with the production immediately.

 

I sincerely hope the sponsorship $ doesn't drop again, because these production hits WILL keep smaller feds out of relatively saturated areas.

[Pogo92]

additional ammunition for the defense of the increase in sponsorship money....

 

My company is now hovering in between local and small, the reason? Presumably production values.

 

In order to not get hit with penalties for lower production than rivals, I need(ed) to increase my production costs by $20k per month. I'm slowly recovering from that initial hit to my money...because I also had to immediately scale back as I was losing too much money...all told I lost $50k trying to keep up with the production immediately.

 

I sincerely hope the sponsorship $ doesn't drop again, because these production hits WILL keep smaller feds out of relatively saturated areas.

 

That's fine at small, for instance. The issue people have right now is 0 pop feds are getting 20k in sponsor money right now, which is far and away greater than the amount a local org needs to operate. Given the low innate overhead, it gives players enough funds to hire the best indie talent on the market right off the bat.

[John Lions]

As of the most recent patch there isn't any relative scaling to the sponsorship at low pop, which is the main issue. It starts at about 20k, and by the time you are at your pop, creepshow, it's only 1-2k higher (variable). If what you are saying is true, 20k would be fine at your level of pop, it should just be lower and scale more drastically to that point. Say, start around 5k and get to 20-25k by the time you hit 10 pop.