TEW2020 Discussion Thread

[EBEZA]

<p>Can't quote it directly for some reason, but...</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><a href="http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2365871&postcount=67" rel="external nofollow"><em>"Whereas the old Fog Of War used a combination of grades, textual descriptions, and numbers, the Scouting system instead is entirely numerical. The way this works is that you'll see a range, for example "Brawling: 23 - 40" meaning that the Brawling skill is somewhere between 23 and 40. It's not a case where it's automatically in the middle, so in that example it could well be that the real value is 24. As different wrestlers will use different ranges and number placement, it is not possible to simply memorise patterns - for example, if one worker has a range of "20 - 40" and you happen to know that the number is really 25, that doesn't mean that another wrestler who has "20 - 40" is also 25. The higher the Scouting level goes, the smaller the range, until eventually you reach maximum Scouting in which case you get to see the exact number."</em></a></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> This is perfect. It's essentially still FOW, but without the different rating systems (which I admit are inconvenient)! Sold! <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[lavelleuk]

<p>I just want to add that I am VERY happy that this scouting has been announced. I had wondered if something was coming when Adam stayed quiet after all the discussion that came out about FOW being removed.</p><p> </p><p>

I like the sound of Pro level as well and hope that stays in, no matter who it is no one in real life is ever 100% known as the opinion on them will vary from person to person, so I like the idea of someone never being completed nailed down to a stat when looking at them (even if they actually do have one...I know what I mean! haha)</p><p> </p><p>

Very happy with today's announcements!</p>

[Derek B]

<p>Speaking as a mod and from the development team....</p><p> </p><p>

Everyone is entitled to their opinions on features, but I think that Adam and the TEW dev team have shown over the years that we try to make the game better in every possible way. Give us a little faith that we are going to make TEW2020 better than everything that has come before it and understand that not every feature can be announced in complete detail ahead of time. If something is removed, that usually means that something better is coming along. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

I don't think Adam had planned to announce this feature for a while, but the level of discussion here kinda forced this to get moved up the list. Just means you guys don't get to find out about something else now for a while. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Arber]

With the new scouting system for stats, will we be able to hire and/or assign a scout to watch particular workers to make their stats clearer faster? Or will it be purely a time based thing with no way for the player to speed it up?

[TeemuFoundation]

<p>Slightly bummed that the new system is purely numerical. Really, really not a big deal, but even though the game is math at the end of the day, it's still more immersive to have people ranked using letter grades, or even purely verbal grades such as "good", "average", etc. Because when we talk about wrestlers in real life, we don't say "Eddie Guerrero was a 100 in charisma and 97 in mic skills!"</p><p> </p><p>

But really, this is just incredibly nitpicky of me. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[christmas_ape]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Derek B" data-cite="Derek B" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> Everyone is entitled to their opinions on features, but I think that Adam and the TEW dev team have shown over the years that we try to make the game better in every possible way. Give us a little faith that we are going to make TEW2020 better than everything that has come before it and understand that not every feature can be announced in complete detail ahead of time. If something is removed, that usually means that something better is coming along. <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> That faith has definitely been earned today. Whilst it makes sense that lots of people (myself included) were pretty bummed out by the removal of FoW as I don't recall the journal entry even hinting that it was going to be replaced by a better system, I'm super happy to see that it is! </p><p> </p><p> Scouting mode looks awesome, as does the pro mode. Will be interesting to see if other preferences are lumped into this mode. Having so many features be optional is clearly a great positive, but a pre-set pro mode makes a lot of sense. It's hard to explain but sometimes if I can change too much, it almost feels less official, so a pre-set pro mode sounds perfect for me. </p><p> </p><p> It's like I love looking through mods for games like Skyrim, but at the same time normally once I put too many on I lose interest actually playing it as even if the game is in some ways better it doesn't feel like how it's meant to be played.</p>

[DarK_RaideR]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="christmas_ape" data-cite="christmas_ape" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>That faith has definitely been earned today. Whilst it makes sense that lots of people (myself included) were pretty bummed out by the removal of FoW as I don't recall the journal entry even hinting that it was going to be replaced by a better system, I'm super happy to see that it is.</div></blockquote><p> This was also my sentiment and reaction reading today's announcement. I've enjoyed Fog of War and while removing it wasn't a deal-breaker for me, I still wanted some uncertainty to be kept around. Scouting does just that and the so-called "Pro Mode" even allows us FOW fans to perpetually maintain that final veil of mystery on.</p><p> </p><p> Hat tip to Adam and Co., big reminder for the community to not get carried away in our reactions <img alt=";)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/wink.png.686f06e511ee1fbf6bdc7d82f6831e53.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Wrestling Century]

Like others have said, I am greatly pleased by this. While removing Fog of War wasn't quite a deal breaker, it was a huge blow imo. However, this system seems like a huge improvement. Also, thank you Mr. Ryland for confirming that I'm not insane, I swore that i remembered some cases where all 3 technical skills applied.

[ブッチャー]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Derek B" data-cite="Derek B" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Speaking as a mod and from the development team....<p> </p><p> Everyone is entitled to their opinions on features, but I think that Adam and the TEW dev team have shown over the years that we try to make the game better in every possible way. Give us a little faith that we are going to make TEW2020 better than everything that has come before it and understand that not every feature can be announced in complete detail ahead of time. If something is removed, that usually means that something better is coming along. <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> In my experience that's been true. I've just been reading up on the Developer's Journal and there are so many amazing additions and changes, but one exception to that statement I'd have to make but is the removal of the product sliders.</p><p> </p><p> Just the reasoning behind the change wasn't "this'll make the game better", it was changed because a lot of modders, mostly real life mod makers, would just use the preset products. I mean, we're talking about people making a whole world, thousands of workers, and all that entails, title histories etc. </p><p> </p><p> Then there's the 50, 70, 100+ promotions that need to be created, most of which they will be completely unfamiliar with, I mean, of course they're gonna use a bunch of presets. How are they gonna know exactly what makes Promotion A different from Promotions B or C if they've never even watched them?</p><p> </p><p> What boggles my mind is that it seems to have saddened Adam to make this discovery, that modders weren't using the sliders much in lieu of the presets, yet the remedy was to take away the sliders from the rest of us, and adding <em>even more</em> presets based purely on what modders, a ridiculously minuscule proportion of the game's user base, have been doing.</p><p> </p><p> I think the focus should absolutely be on the people <em>playing</em> the game. As it is now, if someone's playing a mod and they don't agree with the product, they can always tweak it to their liking. That option will be gone now, and we'll just have to hope that something closer exists.</p><p> </p><p> I don't see why he doesn't just add more presets, so the real life modders have more options, <em>and</em> leave the sliders for the rest of us. I have never once, with any promotion I've created or taken over, used a single preset product. The product I'm playing right now isn't even remotely represented by any of the presets. Not even a tiny bit. It's my favorite product that I've ever played with in any TEW game, and if I'm unable to carry that product over to TEW2020, then it'll probably be a deal breaker for me.</p><p> </p><p> But I'm probably beating a dead horse here, I imagine there was a whole big thing about this change already when it was announced. I'll still give the demo a try of course and see how it goes, but this really makes it rough for me.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Today's announcement is great however. I never used fog of war at all, but I would consider giving scouting a try, sounds much more interesting.</p><p> </p><p> There is one thing that worries me though. He mentions attributes being rated on a numerical scale, eventually narrowing to an exact number. Letter grades are not mentioned at all. I really hope letter grades have not been axed. I absolutely loathe number ratings, I'm about letter grades all the way.</p><p> </p><p> If letter grades aren't in, then it may be fixable via modding to change the numbers into letter grades, but that assumes that the ratings are still displayed via images. However with the game being completely rewritten from the ground up this year, that's not an assumption that can be made.</p>

[SirMichaelJordan]

<p>Loving the scouting update and the possibility of using a pro mode but I would still like to see letter grades as a option for the ranges. Football Manager uses a similar method with the numbers and I am not a fan of it and it’s not visually pleasing imo.</p><p> </p><p>

And with WMMA, I always prefer the vague statements like “strong” over the numerical “85% - 90-%”</p>

[shawn michaels]

<p>Great great stuff today. All golden. Contextual rosters are much needed, pro mode is absolutely fantastic and scouting ends the FOW debate, as it improves on it. Great entry. Now we are back to hype mode. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

Ps: we want letter grades.</p>

[Teh_Showtime]

Well look at that suddenly pages of arguing were just deemed irrelevant <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />

[FINisher]

<p>Well that's a twist. That scouting mechanic should have been in the original post about removing FOW.</p><p> </p><p>

ps. I still like grades better. Could this be modded so that it would show D to D+ for example, instead of the numerical values?</p>

[joshspicer]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Teh_Showtime" data-cite="Teh_Showtime" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Well look at that suddenly pages of arguing were just deemed irrelevant <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Well I wouldn't say that. It brought up a lot of valid points and was a good indication of what a good portion of the fanbase (at least the vocal ones who contribute to the boards) were/are thinking.</p>

[nerodragomir1]

<p>Ryland knows best</p><p> </p><p>

So good! I wasn't too fussed with FOW going the way of the dodo, but the new stuff sounds even funner. I love the idea of never really having a 100% idea of where my wrestlers true stats stand. Like I said before. I was considering FOW for 2020 because of how detailed they have been making it. Now there is an even better version on the horizon. </p><p> </p><p>

Thank you Greydog, very cool.</p>

[what7]

<p>I was sad to see FoW go, so I was really happy to see it evolve with this last entry. It seems like a major improvement to a mechanic that I think is really important for the game.</p><p> </p><p>

Just a thought... Wouldn't it make sense to have it improve a scouting level or two, once you sign a worker? It would be akin to having the guy doing promo classes or warmup/training matches, which would allow the company to better understand their value outside of the events?</p>

[Too Sweet Spartan]

...Can't help but feel Ryland must've had a laugh reading the concern over FoW knowing what his next post was going to be about.

[cps_1908]

 

As for the promise system, i agree with TLC. It's weird. Weird is the best word I can think to classify it. It is not a booking crutch, it was much needed to know what people were gonna do before you were actually watching them in the ring, or about to go to the ring. Yet the inclusion of the system being made around workers promising said stuff out of the blue, with no negotiating ability, is weird. I'm not complaining here, the part where we know what plans we can do before the matches was much needed, I just don't see Hulk Hogan (example) randomly walking to Bischoff and saying: "Brother, just put me in a program with Billy Kidman, brother. I guarantee I will put him over, brother. But he's all wrestling needs, so I gots to work with him, brother. Much love, HH." I mean, many others would randomly do so, but the booker should also have the ability to request it.

 

I like this feature and while I agree that it’s unrealistic for someone like Hulk Hogan to offer to do this, there are some wrestlers where it would be very realistic for this to happen. Mick Foley for example who did this for both Edge and Randy Orton.

[steev42]

*Looks at Dev Journal*

*Looks at his previous suggestion*

 

Hmm...not saying you read my mind, but I don't think you could have added this in the last couple of days. A*!

[shawn michaels]

I like this feature and while I agree that it’s unrealistic for someone like Hulk Hogan to offer to do this, there are some wrestlers where it would be very realistic for this to happen. Mick Foley for example who did this for both Edge and Randy Orton.

 

Yeah. In hindsight I probably didn't explain myself as well as I wanted to. I like the feature and it is realistic, no complaints there. But it feels a little flat without the possibility of us approaching them to request said stuff and the ability to negotiate it. That would not only take care of personalities like Hogan but add a strategy element in cases either part backed out of their promises, with consequences and such.

[Rawisericho]

I absolutely love the idea that information will spread quicker in the modern era than in the 70s or 80s. I really appreciate the attention to detail for historical mods as I'm guessing many of us play them. Seeing the game world change as time goes on is going to be so much fun.

[Dolfanar]

I like this feature and while I agree that it’s unrealistic for someone like Hulk Hogan to offer to do this, there are some wrestlers where it would be very realistic for this to happen. Mick Foley for example who did this for both Edge and Randy Orton.

 

Except Hogan actually did this in the case of Bill Goldberg...

[TLCJR4LIFE]

I want to play a bit with the new scouting system, it seems quite reasonable.

[K-Nection]

<p>So was the plan all along to rebrand Fog of War into scouting....? If that's the case I'm a bit tired of getting worked into shoots on here....</p><p> </p><p>

It sounds like Scouting is exactly what I myself and others have been clamoring for on here.</p><p> </p><p>

As far as the misstatement about Technical it makes even less sense to combine them after that....</p><p> </p><p>

Edit: After a minute or two of reflection it has dawned on me that you didn't even have to lump in the announcement that you were getting rid of FOW until you were ready to announce Scouting....</p>

[franticloser]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="shawn michaels" data-cite="shawn michaels" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Yeah. In hindsight I probably didn't explain myself as well as I wanted to. I like the feature and it is realistic, no complaints there. But it feels a little but flat without the possibility of us approaching them to request said stuff and the ability to negotiate it. That would not only take care of personalities like Hogan but add a strategy element in cases either part backed out of their promises, with consequences and such.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>There is also a second flavour of this feature, which is reactive promises. The way this works is that you can approach a worker (via Talk To Worker) and specifically ask them to promise to put someone over, to which they can agree or disagree. The difference between the two flavours is that the proactive version is more powerful - it will almost always be for multiple matches and last a few months, meaning you can create a feud around it - whereas the reactive version is only for one match and lasts just one month.<p> </p><p> The idea behind this is to add to the realism, potentially give you a way around situations where somebody refuses to lose, and means that your booking plans can potentially change to embrace promises that you didn't expect.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Whether we can negotiate or not if they refuse, wasn't specifically addressed, maybe Adam can chime in on this? We can go to them as well, it just won't won't last as long as if they come with it themselves.</p>